BREAKING: World Rugby APPROVES Test eligibility change!

[FalseBayFC]

Interesting. Duhan come home broer!

https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/wo ... -breaking/

[Margin__Walker]

Interestingly not just a Tier 1 to Tier 2 thing. Could lead to a few interesting switches for players who had been in the wilderness internationally (due to 3 year stand down).

[FalseBayFC]

Vaea Fifita, George Moala, Augustine Pulu, Israel Folau & Charles Piutau can all play for Tonga in their first test of 2022.

[FalseBayFC]

As could Malakai Fekitoa.

[JM2K6]

Will be interesting knock-on effects on the club game in terms of these guys previously being considered "available" during international week.

[Big D]

Makes Dempsey available for Scotland too I think.

[Margin__Walker]

Makes Dempsey available for Scotland too I think.

You can finally get your hands on Steve Shingler!

[sturginho]

Lozowski to Italy!!

[Slick]

Makes Dempsey available for Scotland too I think.

Now then..

[Tichtheid]

Capture starts at 18, so U20s are a bigger decision for players now

[sockwithaticket]

Not a fan in general, but the way it's implemented according to the article is too broad. Cap limit and no grandparent eligiblity should've been in there as restrictions.

Capture starts at 18, so U20s are a bigger decision for players now

I could be wrong, but I thought age group sides remain incapable of capturing someone,however, an 18 year old can line up for a nation's senior 15s or 7s team and be captured.

[Tichtheid]

Does Dempsey have Scottish heritage?

[Tichtheid]

Capture starts at 18, so U20s are a bigger decision for players now

I could be wrong, but I thought age group sides remain incapable of capturing someone,however, an 18 year old can line up for a nation's senior 15s or 7s team and be captured.

In the link it states

The Regulation 8 revisions will also align the “age of majority” across 15s and sevens. All players will now be ‘captured’ at 18 years of age to simplify the Regulation and improve union understanding and compliance.

If the purpose was to simplify and they've done this but it only applies to senior teams, it muddies the water a bit

[sockwithaticket]

Capture starts at 18, so U20s are a bigger decision for players now

I could be wrong, but I thought age group sides remain incapable of capturing someone,however, an 18 year old can line up for a nation's senior 15s or 7s team and be captured.

In the link it states

The Regulation 8 revisions will also align the “age of majority” across 15s and sevens. All players will now be ‘captured’ at 18 years of age to simplify the Regulation and improve union understanding and compliance.

If the purpose was to simplify and they've done this but it only applies to senior teams, it muddies the water a bit

Yeah I think that's age of majority at which they can make the decision to accept a cap that would capture them. I have no idea what this is a change from, though.

[Slick]

Does Dempsey have Scottish heritage?

Grandad - his Wiki page has recently been updated to emphasis this

[Niegs]

So, even fewer lads born and raised and living in Samoa and Tonga to play for them in future?

A mate brought up that recent graphic showing the %age of foreign born players in national squads. Thought I'd look at Samoa via the roster listed in Wikipedia. Of the 17 forwards listed, only 4 were not born in New Zealand and at least one of those four seemingly grew up in NZ since boyhood.

I understand that it'll make these nations more competitive, but it'd be nice if WR helped improve the state of rugby in T2 / T3 countries so that we didn't have to rely so much on poaches. Maybe it's impossible with the economies, though, and schools doing the bulk of the poaching? But doesn't Fiji do reasonably well with home-grown/based athletes?

[Big D]

Makes Dempsey available for Scotland too I think.

You can finally get your hands on Steve Shingler!

Or the player callously poached at 7 by NZ Finlay Christie!

In fact Bevan Rodd should do the honourable thing and stand down from England to begin the clock when he can turn out for the nation of his birth.

I wonder what former Scotland under 19 player Lee Dickson is up to... Surely a chance to play for the mighty Scotland would make him consider binning Barnard Castle to return to pro rugby at 36 :D.

If taken that too far haven't I?

[GogLais]

Does the "subject to approval by WRRC to preserve integrity" mean anything more than an administrative check to ensure that the parentage thing is legit?

[OomStruisbaai]

CJ Stander may like this

[Big D]

The players will need to be savvy about this too to avoid being randomly capped in say an end of season tour warm up like NZ v Tonga, France v Georgia (thinking of the Fijian guys) etc.

[Big D]

This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

[SaintK]

CJ Stander may like this

Blimey!!
You've far better 8's than him surely?

[convoluted]

This is half the battle won.
It just remains now to stop the French clubs from 'suggesting' to their PI players that they not participate in World Cups.

[sockwithaticket]

This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

Or having made financial decisions that rendered them ineligible.

If NZRU were able to stump up the amounts that Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid Piutau, he'd still be based in New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks rather than looking to play for Tonga.

Part of the value in the contracts he was offered would've been knowing he was no longer required for international duty due to New Zealand's eligibility criteria. He definitely wouldn't have been offered as much if he was already playing for Tonga and would need to miss league games during the season to represent them.

[Big D]

This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

Or having made financial decisions that rendered them ineligible.

If NZRU were able to stump up the amounts that Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid Piutau, he'd still be based in New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks rather than looking to play for Tonga.

Part of the value in the contracts he was offered would've been knowing he was no longer required for international duty due to New Zealand's eligibility criteria. He definitely wouldn't have been offered as much if he was already playing for Tonga and would need to miss league games during the season to represent them.

But that's the decision he made knowing the consequences. He wasn't held hostage, IIRC he took the hump after not making the world cup.

It is great for the unions and the game but the players made conscious decisions along the way to maximise earnings and not play for the PI/other country they were eligible for. As they are entitled to do. But the way some are going on it was like they were cruelly denied the chance to play for their country of choice.

[sockwithaticket]

This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

Or having made financial decisions that rendered them ineligible.

If NZRU were able to stump up the amounts that Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid Piutau, he'd still be based in New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks rather than looking to play for Tonga.

Part of the value in the contracts he was offered would've been knowing he was no longer required for international duty due to New Zealand's eligibility criteria. He definitely wouldn't have been offered as much if he was already playing for Tonga and would need to miss league games during the season to represent them.

But that's the decision he made knowing the consequences. He wasn't held hostage, IIRC he took the hump after not making the world cup.

It is great for the unions and the game but the players made conscious decisions along the way to maximise earnings and not play for the PI/other country they were eligible for. As they are entitled to do. But the way some are going on it was like they were cruelly denied the chance to play for their country of choice.

Oh I'm backing you up, I was offering up financial decisions in addition to not being good enough. He only wants to play for Tonga because he shut the door on the All Blacks himself and he misses international rugby.

Going for the cash is totally a valid thing to do, but if you're currently playing for a nation that requires you to be based there to be selected and you'd prefer the money, then you're making a choice and have to live with it.

He had 17 caps, I think that's too many to be able to switch allegiance.

I know there are arguments that Islanders make these decisions to support their extended families, but that doesn't quite wash when the player has a fancy car with a personalised number plate (as Piutau apparently does). Obviously they shouldn't have to impoverish themselves, but that seems an unnecessary extravagance if you really take a job to help out.

Re: the bolded, as I understand it he was due to go to the world cup, but NZRU became aware of him signing for Ulster rather than re-upping his All Black deal which was set to expire a year after the cup. He was allowed to leave/released from his All Black contract early and this left him with a season to kill before his Ulster deal kicked in, which is when Wasps stepped in.

[Big D]

Oh I'm backing you up, I was offering up financial decisions in addition to not being good enough. He only wants to play for Tonga because he shut the door on the All Blacks himself and he misses international rugby.

Ah sorry, I get what you mean now.

I saw an argument for it on twitter where similar points were raised in a way it was "he only did it for the money because he had to".

[Ymx]

This is half the battle won.
It just remains now to stop the French clubs from 'suggesting' to their PI players that they not participate in World Cups.

Therein lies the biggest issue. Players who are eligible but not making themselves available is the bigger problem here.

[shaggy]

This is half the battle won.
It just remains now to stop the French clubs from 'suggesting' to their PI players that they not participate in World Cups.

Therein lies the biggest issue. Players who are eligible but not making themselves available is the bigger problem here.

I am assuming that the players that cashed in their value and moved overseas have also factored in their potential net drop in value with said overseas team as they will unlikely be worth the same coin now that they are newly available for international duty?

[Kawazaki]

This is half the battle won.
It just remains now to stop the French clubs from 'suggesting' to their PI players that they not participate in World Cups.

Therein lies the biggest issue. Players who are eligible but not making themselves available is the bigger problem here.

The English and French clubs do more for rugby in the PI nations every year than World Rugby/IRB have done in the last 25 years.

[Ymx]

This is half the battle won.
It just remains now to stop the French clubs from 'suggesting' to their PI players that they not participate in World Cups.

Therein lies the biggest issue. Players who are eligible but not making themselves available is the bigger problem here.

The English and French clubs do more for rugby in the PI nations every year than World Rugby/IRB have done in the last 25 years.

It indeed gives them opportunities to earn. But it also shuts off opportunities to represent. Not sure how it’s supposed to change when club match comps overlap international windows, and therefore have interests to keep their contracted players.

[Kawazaki]

Therein lies the biggest issue. Players who are eligible but not making themselves available is the bigger problem here.

The English and French clubs do more for rugby in the PI nations every year than World Rugby/IRB have done in the last 25 years.

It indeed gives them opportunities to earn. But it also shuts off opportunities to represent. Not sure how it’s supposed to change when club match comps overlap international windows, and therefore have interests to keep their contracted players.

It doesn't really. I bet if you added up how many test caps PI players have accumulated in total whilst contracted to an English or French club and then added up how many caps had been missed because a contracted PI player was selected but made himself unavailable the differential would be huge. At least 20:1, probably nearer 50:1.

[Ymx]

So for English and French clubs there’s no draw towards players who are not available to international rugby? Because we are saying, it doesn’t really happen.

[Ymx]

Actually and this might be a stupid question but which international windows do the French and English clubs comps overlap with?

- Autumn internationals - Was it 1 week out of 3 - it appeared to be Nov 6/7
- 6N - ??
- TRC
- Mid year tests (summer)

[Kawazaki]

So for English and French clubs there’s no draw towards players who are not available to international rugby? Because we are saying, it doesn’t really happen.

It's massively overstated how much it happens. At least inside official test windows. Outside of them, no chance of release.

[Ymx]

9.6 Designated Release Events

The Right to Release for Matches applies to the Designated Release Events set out below whenever such Designated Release Events are held. All Players selected to participate in Designated Release Events shall be released.

(a) Union Designated Release Events:

(i) The quadrennial Rugby World Cup Tournament and qualification Matches.

(ii) The quadrennial Rugby World Cup Sevens event.

(iii) An Olympic Sevens Rugby event and qualification Matches.

(b) Combined Teams Designated Release Events:

(i) The quadrennial British and Irish Lions Tour is a Designated Event and all Players selected to participate shall be released. The Release Period shall ordinarily commence on 1 July and ordinarily conclude on the first weekend of August in the relevant year.

(ii) The quadrennial Tour of the Combined Team of the Pacific Islands Unions (Fiji, Samoa and Tonga) is a Designated Event and all Players selected to participate shall be released. The Tour will take place in the November window in the relevant year.

9.7 Global Release Periods

There are two Global Release Periods.

(a) The July window

The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to each of the senior National Representative Team, the next senior National Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative Team of a Union in respect of all International Matches, International Tours and International Tournaments played over a period of three weekends in July each year, save in a Rugby World Cup year, during which year the July window shall not operate in respect of Unions that qualified for the Rugby World Cup. Unless Council approves otherwise the three weekends in July shall be the first, second and third weekends.

(b) The November window

The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to each of the senior National Representative Team, the next senior National Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative Team of a Union in respect of all International Matches, International Tours and International Tournaments played over a period of three weekends in November each year, save in a Rugby World Cup year, during which year the November window shall not operate in respect of Unions that qualified for the Rugby World Cup. Unless Council approves otherwise the three weekends in November shall be the first, second and third weekends.

9.8 Hemisphere Release Periods and Tournament Release Period

There are two Hemisphere Release Periods.

(a) Northern Hemisphere Release Period

(i) The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to Players who are eligible pursuant to Regulation 8 to represent the senior, the next senior National Representative Team or the Under 20 National Representative Team of a Northern Hemisphere Union in a Northern Hemisphere International Match, International Tour or International Tournament during the Northern Hemisphere Release Period.

(ii) The Northern Hemisphere Release Period shall operate each year. It shall run from the first weekend of February each year and conclude on the third weekend of March. Players shall be released prior to the Northern Hemisphere Release Period in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 9.9.

(iii) Subject to the provisions of Regulation 9.32 and Regulation 9.33, during the Northern Hemisphere Release Period Unions may only exercise the Right to Release pursuant to this Regulation 9 for five weeks out of the seven week period. The five weeks shall be the same weeks for each of the senior National Representative Team, the next senior National Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative Team.

(iv) Unless Council approves otherwise for the purposes of this Regulation 9, Northern Hemisphere Union shall mean the Unions listed in Appendix 1, Part A and Northern Hemisphere International Match(es), International Tour or International Tournament shall mean those Matches, Tours or Tournaments listed as such in Appendix 1, Part B.

(b) Southern Hemisphere Release Period

(i) The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to Players who are eligible pursuant to Regulation 8 to represent the senior, the next senior National Representative Team or the Under 20 National Representative Team of a Southern Hemisphere Union in a Southern Hemisphere International Match, International Tour or International Tournament during the Southern Hemisphere Release Period.

(ii) Unless Council approves otherwise the Southern Hemisphere Release Period shall operate each year. It shall commence on the first weekend of August and continue for the next eight consecutive weekends. Players shall be released prior to the Southern Hemisphere Release Period in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 9.9.

(iii) Subject to the provisions of Regulation 9.32 during the Southern Hemisphere Release Period Unions may only exercise the Right to Release pursuant to this Regulation 9 for six weeks out of the nine week period. The six weeks shall be the same weeks for each of the senior National Representative Team, the next senior National Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative Team.

(iv) Unless Council approves otherwise for the purposes of this Regulation 9, Southern Hemisphere Union shall mean the Unions listed as such in Appendix 2, Part A and Southern Hemisphere International Match(es), International Tour or International Tournament shall mean those Matches, Tours or Tournaments listed as such in Appendix 2, Part B.

(c) Rugby Championship Release Period

(i) The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to Players who are eligible pursuant to Regulation 8 to represent the senior, the next senior National Representative Team or the Under 20 National Representative Team of a Rugby Championship Union in the Rugby Championship International Tournament during the Rugby Championship Release Period.

(ii) Unless Council approves otherwise the Rugby Championship Release Period shall operate each year for an eight week period. It shall ordinarily commence on or around the second weekend in August and shall conclude on or around the first weekend in October each year (save in a Rugby World Cup year in which case it shall ordinarily commence on or around the fourth weekend in July and conclude prior to Rugby World Cup). Players shall be released prior to the Rugby Championship. Players shall be released prior to the Rugby Championship Release Period in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 9.9.

(iii) Subject to the provisions of Regulation 9.32 and Regulation 9.33 during the Rugby Championship Release Period Unions may only exercise the Right to Release pursuant to this Regulation 9 for six weeks out of the eight week period. The six weeks shall be the same weeks for each of the senior National Representative Team, the next senior National Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative Team.

(iv) Unless Council approves otherwise for the purposes of this Regulation 9, Rugby Championship Union shall mean the Unions listed as such in Appendix 2, Part A.

Period of International duty for Matches

9.9 In each case of release a Union shall be entitled to exercise its Right to Release for Matches so that Players are assembled at a location determined by the Union selecting the Player and available to train at least five clear days prior to the commencement of the International Match, International Tour or International Tournament. If an International Tournament is not played on consecutive weekends then the five clear day period shall commence five days before each Match in the Tournament.

[Niegs]

Someone who writes on women's rugby has noted (if she's looked at the fine print), Samoa women could get themselves a boost in a short period of time (and I feel like they play their Tests in NZ as most of their squad are Kiwis anyway). Looking a bit like Rugby League.

[convoluted]

... It doesn't really. I bet if you added up how many test caps PI players have accumulated in total whilst contracted to an English or French club and then added up how many caps had been missed because a contracted PI player was selected but made himself unavailable the differential would be huge. At least 20:1, probably nearer 50:1.

My specification which sparked this off was World Cups.

For decades it has enraged me how the French clubs blackmail their various PI contingents into declaring unavailability for each WC, and to me this repeated insistence has more to do with fear of a World Cup defeat from a PI nation than it has to do with club competitions.
So many times France itself has had enormous problems with PI nations during the Cup, including the indignity of shock defeat.

I might be wrong but I seem to recall that the French team that knocked the ABs out in that Cardiff forward-pass Wayne-Barnes semi-final only escaped an earlier quarter final defeat (to perhaps Fiji) in very controversial circumstances.

And of course Fiji dumped France in a memorable Paris test only a few years back.

... and then there was the lament of the Welsh crowd at the Arms Park during a World Cup defeat at home: "Thank God we're not playing the whole of Samoa."

[Enzedder]

I wish they had specifically excluded some sides where this does not apply to - say those with 2 WR votes. (Does that still happen for the old boys network?)

[assfly]

Pocock, Beast, Ewers and Denton to Zimbabwe please