NPR

Big D wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:48 pm Makes Dempsey available for Scotland too I think.

Big D wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:48 pm Makes Dempsey available for Scotland too I think.

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:59 pm Capture starts at 18, so U20s are a bigger decision for players now

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:04 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:59 pm Capture starts at 18, so U20s are a bigger decision for players now

I could be wrong, but I thought age group sides remain incapable of capturing someone,however, an 18 year old can line up for a nation's senior 15s or 7s team and be captured.

The Regulation 8 revisions will also align the “age of majority” across 15s and sevens. All players will now be ‘captured’ at 18 years of age to simplify the Regulation and improve union understanding and compliance.

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:07 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:04 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:59 pm Capture starts at 18, so U20s are a bigger decision for players now

I could be wrong, but I thought age group sides remain incapable of capturing someone,however, an 18 year old can line up for a nation's senior 15s or 7s team and be captured.

In the link it states

The Regulation 8 revisions will also align the “age of majority” across 15s and sevens. All players will now be ‘captured’ at 18 years of age to simplify the Regulation and improve union understanding and compliance.

If the purpose was to simplify and they've done this but it only applies to senior teams, it muddies the water a bit

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:04 pm Does Dempsey have Scottish heritage?

Margin__Walker wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:50 pm

Big D wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:48 pm Makes Dempsey available for Scotland too I think.

You can finally get your hands on Steve Shingler!

OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:11 pm CJ Stander may like this

Big D wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:38 pm This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:12 pm

Big D wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:38 pm This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

Or having made financial decisions that rendered them ineligible.

If NZRU were able to stump up the amounts that Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid Piutau, he'd still be based in New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks rather than looking to play for Tonga.

Part of the value in the contracts he was offered would've been knowing he was no longer required for international duty due to New Zealand's eligibility criteria. He definitely wouldn't have been offered as much if he was already playing for Tonga and would need to miss league games during the season to represent them.

Big D wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:25 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:12 pm

Big D wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:38 pm This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

Or having made financial decisions that rendered them ineligible.

If NZRU were able to stump up the amounts that Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid Piutau, he'd still be based in New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks rather than looking to play for Tonga.

Part of the value in the contracts he was offered would've been knowing he was no longer required for international duty due to New Zealand's eligibility criteria. He definitely wouldn't have been offered as much if he was already playing for Tonga and would need to miss league games during the season to represent them.

But that's the decision he made knowing the consequences. He wasn't held hostage, IIRC he took the hump after not making the world cup.

It is great for the unions and the game but the players made conscious decisions along the way to maximise earnings and not play for the PI/other country they were eligible for. As they are entitled to do. But the way some are going on it was like they were cruelly denied the chance to play for their country of choice.

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:36 pm

Oh I'm backing you up, I was offering up financial decisions in addition to not being good enough. He only wants to play for Tonga because he shut the door on the All Blacks himself and he misses international rugby.

convoluted wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:10 pm This is half the battle won.
It just remains now to stop the French clubs from 'suggesting' to their PI players that they not participate in World Cups.

Ymx wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:03 pm

convoluted wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:10 pm This is half the battle won.
It just remains now to stop the French clubs from 'suggesting' to their PI players that they not participate in World Cups.

Therein lies the biggest issue. Players who are eligible but not making themselves available is the bigger problem here.

Ymx wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:03 pm

convoluted wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:10 pm This is half the battle won.
It just remains now to stop the French clubs from 'suggesting' to their PI players that they not participate in World Cups.

Therein lies the biggest issue. Players who are eligible but not making themselves available is the bigger problem here.

Kawazaki wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:22 pm

Ymx wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:03 pm

convoluted wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:10 pm This is half the battle won.
It just remains now to stop the French clubs from 'suggesting' to their PI players that they not participate in World Cups.

Therein lies the biggest issue. Players who are eligible but not making themselves available is the bigger problem here.

The English and French clubs do more for rugby in the PI nations every year than World Rugby/IRB have done in the last 25 years.

Ymx wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:30 pm

Kawazaki wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:22 pm

Ymx wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:03 pm

Therein lies the biggest issue. Players who are eligible but not making themselves available is the bigger problem here.

The English and French clubs do more for rugby in the PI nations every year than World Rugby/IRB have done in the last 25 years.

It indeed gives them opportunities to earn. But it also shuts off opportunities to represent. Not sure how it’s supposed to change when club match comps overlap international windows, and therefore have interests to keep their contracted players.

Ymx wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:11 pm So for English and French clubs there’s no draw towards players who are not available to international rugby? Because we are saying, it doesn’t really happen.

9.6 Designated Release Events

The Right to Release for Matches applies to the Designated Release Events set out below whenever such Designated Release Events are held. All Players selected to participate in Designated Release Events shall be released.

(a) Union Designated Release Events:

(i) The quadrennial Rugby World Cup Tournament and qualification Matches.

(ii) The quadrennial Rugby World Cup Sevens event.

(iii) An Olympic Sevens Rugby event and qualification Matches.

(b) Combined Teams Designated Release Events:

(i) The quadrennial British and Irish Lions Tour is a Designated Event and all Players selected to participate shall be released. The Release Period shall ordinarily commence on 1 July and ordinarily conclude on the first weekend of August in the relevant year.

(ii) The quadrennial Tour of the Combined Team of the Pacific Islands Unions (Fiji, Samoa and Tonga) is a Designated Event and all Players selected to participate shall be released. The Tour will take place in the November window in the relevant year.

9.7 Global Release Periods

There are two Global Release Periods.

(a) The July window

The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to each of the senior National Representative Team, the next senior National Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative Team of a Union in respect of all International Matches, International Tours and International Tournaments played over a period of three weekends in July each year, save in a Rugby World Cup year, during which year the July window shall not operate in respect of Unions that qualified for the Rugby World Cup. Unless Council approves otherwise the three weekends in July shall be the first, second and third weekends.

(b) The November window

The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to each of the senior National Representative Team, the next senior National Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative Team of a Union in respect of all International Matches, International Tours and International Tournaments played over a period of three weekends in November each year, save in a Rugby World Cup year, during which year the November window shall not operate in respect of Unions that qualified for the Rugby World Cup. Unless Council approves otherwise the three weekends in November shall be the first, second and third weekends.

9.8 Hemisphere Release Periods and Tournament Release Period

There are two Hemisphere Release Periods.

(a) Northern Hemisphere Release Period

(i) The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to Players who are eligible pursuant to Regulation 8 to represent the senior, the next senior National Representative Team or the Under 20 National Representative Team of a Northern Hemisphere Union in a Northern Hemisphere International Match, International Tour or International Tournament during the Northern Hemisphere Release Period.

(ii) The Northern Hemisphere Release Period shall operate each year. It shall run from the first weekend of February each year and conclude on the third weekend of March. Players shall be released prior to the Northern Hemisphere Release Period in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 9.9.

(iii) Subject to the provisions of Regulation 9.32 and Regulation 9.33, during the Northern Hemisphere Release Period Unions may only exercise the Right to Release pursuant to this Regulation 9 for five weeks out of the seven week period. The five weeks shall be the same weeks for each of the senior National Representative Team, the next senior National Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative Team.

(iv) Unless Council approves otherwise for the purposes of this Regulation 9, Northern Hemisphere Union shall mean the Unions listed in Appendix 1, Part A and Northern Hemisphere International Match(es), International Tour or International Tournament shall mean those Matches, Tours or Tournaments listed as such in Appendix 1, Part B.

(b) Southern Hemisphere Release Period

(i) The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to Players who are eligible pursuant to Regulation 8 to represent the senior, the next senior National Representative Team or the Under 20 National Representative Team of a Southern Hemisphere Union in a Southern Hemisphere International Match, International Tour or International Tournament during the Southern Hemisphere Release Period.

(ii) Unless Council approves otherwise the Southern Hemisphere Release Period shall operate each year. It shall commence on the first weekend of August and continue for the next eight consecutive weekends. Players shall be released prior to the Southern Hemisphere Release Period in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 9.9.

(iii) Subject to the provisions of Regulation 9.32 during the Southern Hemisphere Release Period Unions may only exercise the Right to Release pursuant to this Regulation 9 for six weeks out of the nine week period. The six weeks shall be the same weeks for each of the senior National Representative Team, the next senior National Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative Team.

(iv) Unless Council approves otherwise for the purposes of this Regulation 9, Southern Hemisphere Union shall mean the Unions listed as such in Appendix 2, Part A and Southern Hemisphere International Match(es), International Tour or International Tournament shall mean those Matches, Tours or Tournaments listed as such in Appendix 2, Part B.

(c) Rugby Championship Release Period

(i) The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to Players who are eligible pursuant to Regulation 8 to represent the senior, the next senior National Representative Team or the Under 20 National Representative Team of a Rugby Championship Union in the Rugby Championship International Tournament during the Rugby Championship Release Period.

(ii) Unless Council approves otherwise the Rugby Championship Release Period shall operate each year for an eight week period. It shall ordinarily commence on or around the second weekend in August and shall conclude on or around the first weekend in October each year (save in a Rugby World Cup year in which case it shall ordinarily commence on or around the fourth weekend in July and conclude prior to Rugby World Cup). Players shall be released prior to the Rugby Championship. Players shall be released prior to the Rugby Championship Release Period in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 9.9.

(iii) Subject to the provisions of Regulation 9.32 and Regulation 9.33 during the Rugby Championship Release Period Unions may only exercise the Right to Release pursuant to this Regulation 9 for six weeks out of the eight week period. The six weeks shall be the same weeks for each of the senior National Representative Team, the next senior National Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative Team.

(iv) Unless Council approves otherwise for the purposes of this Regulation 9, Rugby Championship Union shall mean the Unions listed as such in Appendix 2, Part A.

Period of International duty for Matches

9.9 In each case of release a Union shall be entitled to exercise its Right to Release for Matches so that Players are assembled at a location determined by the Union selecting the Player and available to train at least five clear days prior to the commencement of the International Match, International Tour or International Tournament. If an International Tournament is not played on consecutive weekends then the five clear day period shall commence five days before each Match in the Tournament.

Kawazaki wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:02 pm ... It doesn't really. I bet if you added up how many test caps PI players have accumulated in total whilst contracted to an English or French club and then added up how many caps had been missed because a contracted PI player was selected but made himself unavailable the differential would be huge. At least 20:1, probably nearer 50:1.