Choke Tackles - Time for the refs to step in

[TheFrog]

I am ok when it is executed properly like in the example below:




But Ireland have a tendency to apply the notion of "choke" literally, which is clearly illegal:






When will the refs act on this?

[Ymx]

The swarm are on the other side of the fence if you want a bite.

[Ymx]

However, one thing which doesn’t look right to me is how they are reffed. Once it’s deemed a maul, it should only be a turn over depending upon how the maul goes down.

Too often it is the defensive team who do the choke but then they sack the maul, cause it to collapse. That surely should be a penalty like it is when offensive mauls are formed and the defence sacks it.

[TheFrog]

However, one thing which doesn’t look right to me is how they are reffed. Once it’s deemed a maul, it should only be a turn over depending upon how the maul goes down.

Too often it is the defensive team who do the choke but then they sack the maul, cause it to collapse. That surely should be a penalty like it is when offensive mauls are formed and the defence sacks it.

Well, this isn't as clear cut as that always, as the attacking team tries their best to bring their own player down, get the ref to call a tackle and ask the defenders to release.

[TheFrog]

The swarm are on the other side of the fence if you want a bite.

Funny enough, looks like the site crashed and just came back on.

[Uncle fester]

Junior rugby lesson one for young lads out of the under twenties... Don't run upright into grown men or you'll have the ball stripped off you.

If junior rugby players can learn this, internationals should be able to as well.

[JM2K6]

Junior rugby lesson one for young lads out of the under twenties... Don't run upright into grown men or you'll have the ball stripped off you.

If junior rugby players can learn this, internationals should be able to as well.

That's a pretty disingenuous response. Do they not bother teaching your kids to not throttle people?

[TheFrog]

Junior rugby lesson one for young lads out of the under twenties... Don't run upright into grown men or you'll have the ball stripped off you.

If junior rugby players can learn this, internationals should be able to as well.

That's a pretty disingenuous response. Do they not bother teaching your kids to not throttle people?

Absolutely agree.

While I have no sympathy for Lawes in the first picture because of his poor body position in contact, and while the Welsh tacklers are perfectly within the laws of the game there, there are far too many examples of the Irish tacklers actually wrapping their arms around the neck of the tackled player as shown in the two pictures I posted.

[Slick]

TheFrog is Eddie Jones’ French love child and I claim my free tripeux sandwich

[Uncle fester]

Junior rugby lesson one for young lads out of the under twenties... Don't run upright into grown men or you'll have the ball stripped off you.

If junior rugby players can learn this, internationals should be able to as well.

That's a pretty disingenuous response. Do they not bother teaching your kids to not throttle people?

Let the ball go and bad things won't happen to you.

Or go low to begin with. French twigged this a good while back.

[Paddington Bear]

Just a dull anti rugby tactic that refs reward with their arm already outstretched for a scrum before they even hit the turf. As mentioned if it's a maul then the defenders have brought it down and it's a penalty, if not it's a tackle and they need to roll away. Regardless more often than not Ireland are doing it in a way that were it to happen against them Sexton would be calling for oxygen.

[JM2K6]

Junior rugby lesson one for young lads out of the under twenties... Don't run upright into grown men or you'll have the ball stripped off you.

If junior rugby players can learn this, internationals should be able to as well.

That's a pretty disingenuous response. Do they not bother teaching your kids to not throttle people?

Let the ball go and bad things won't happen to you.

Or go low to begin with. French twigged this a good while back.

It's cute you think that choke tackles only happen to people running upright into contact.

[sockwithaticket]

If regular tackles slip up to the neck then it's a penalty, choke tackles shoukd be no different.

[Uncle fester]

Just a dull anti rugby tactic that refs reward with their arm already outstretched for a scrum before they even hit the turf. As mentioned if it's a maul then the defenders have brought it down and it's a penalty, if not it's a tackle and they need to roll away. Regardless more often than not Ireland are doing it in a way that were it to happen against them Sexton would be calling for oxygen.

If it's foul play, it would have been penalised a long time ago and it hasn't happened, not even once in my recollection.

But yes, game against France coming up. Let's try and get the spotlight on Ireland and their alleged misdeeds. Couple of cherry-picked photos to prove the point as well!

[TheFrog]

Just a dull anti rugby tactic that refs reward with their arm already outstretched for a scrum before they even hit the turf. As mentioned if it's a maul then the defenders have brought it down and it's a penalty, if not it's a tackle and they need to roll away. Regardless more often than not Ireland are doing it in a way that were it to happen against them Sexton would be calling for oxygen.

If it's foul play, it would have been penalised a long time ago and it hasn't happened, not even once in my recollection.

But yes, game against France coming up. Let's try and get the spotlight on Ireland and their alleged misdeeds. Couple of cherry-picked photos to prove the point as well!

Are you saying that the tackles are ok on these photos?

[paddyor]

Probably were, Welsh player wirggled themselves into a precarious position.

[Uncle fester]

Just a dull anti rugby tactic that refs reward with their arm already outstretched for a scrum before they even hit the turf. As mentioned if it's a maul then the defenders have brought it down and it's a penalty, if not it's a tackle and they need to roll away. Regardless more often than not Ireland are doing it in a way that were it to happen against them Sexton would be calling for oxygen.

If it's foul play, it would have been penalised a long time ago and it hasn't happened, not even once in my recollection.

But yes, game against France coming up. Let's try and get the spotlight on Ireland and their alleged misdeeds. Couple of cherry-picked photos to prove the point as well!

Are you saying that the tackles are ok on these photos?

Photos can be misleading. Clips would be better.
For instance, were the tackled players trying to slip out of the tackle to get to ground?

[JM2K6]

If it's foul play, it would have been penalised a long time ago and it hasn't happened, not even once in my recollection.

But yes, game against France coming up. Let's try and get the spotlight on Ireland and their alleged misdeeds. Couple of cherry-picked photos to prove the point as well!

Are you saying that the tackles are ok on these photos?

Photos can be misleading. Clips would be better.
For instance, were the tackled players trying to slip out of the tackle to get to ground?

The choke tacklers arms should be under the armpits, not over the shoulder.

[TheFrog]

If it's foul play, it would have been penalised a long time ago and it hasn't happened, not even once in my recollection.

But yes, game against France coming up. Let's try and get the spotlight on Ireland and their alleged misdeeds. Couple of cherry-picked photos to prove the point as well!

Are you saying that the tackles are ok on these photos?

Photos can be misleading. Clips would be better.
For instance, were the tackled players trying to slip out of the tackle to get to ground?

So, now it is the tackled player's fault if the defender wraps his arms around his neck?

[Uncle fester]

If they try to slip out of a hold on the chest, they contribute to the situation.
Get a video clip of the above and then we'll talk.

[inactionman]

If they try to slip out of a hold on the chest, they contribute to the situation.
Get a video clip of the above and then we'll talk.

At which point the tackler should release, surely?

[JM2K6]

If they try to slip out of a hold on the chest, they contribute to the situation.
Get a video clip of the above and then we'll talk.

At which point the tackler should release, surely?

Exactly. You lost your grip, now let go and don't throttle players.

[TheFrog]

If they try to slip out of a hold on the chest, they contribute to the situation.
Get a video clip of the above and then we'll talk.

At which point the tackler should release, surely?

Exactly. You lost your grip, now let go and don't throttle players.

Amazing that Fester can't see that.

I think Ireland have always benefited from refs' leniency in this area (and others).

I don't know if it is the permanent shooting of Sexton in their ears or all the arms waving around the rucks and collision areas...

[Paddington Bear]

Just a dull anti rugby tactic that refs reward with their arm already outstretched for a scrum before they even hit the turf. As mentioned if it's a maul then the defenders have brought it down and it's a penalty, if not it's a tackle and they need to roll away. Regardless more often than not Ireland are doing it in a way that were it to happen against them Sexton would be calling for oxygen.

If it's foul play, it would have been penalised a long time ago and it hasn't happened, not even once in my recollection.

But yes, game against France coming up. Let's try and get the spotlight on Ireland and their alleged misdeeds. Couple of cherry-picked photos to prove the point as well!

The extent to which I care about the winner of France Ireland can be overstated - it doesn't matter who does it and in what circumstances it's a shit tactic that makes for boring rugby and shouldn't be facilitated by the referees.

[TheFrog]

Just a dull anti rugby tactic that refs reward with their arm already outstretched for a scrum before they even hit the turf. As mentioned if it's a maul then the defenders have brought it down and it's a penalty, if not it's a tackle and they need to roll away. Regardless more often than not Ireland are doing it in a way that were it to happen against them Sexton would be calling for oxygen.

If it's foul play, it would have been penalised a long time ago and it hasn't happened, not even once in my recollection.

But yes, game against France coming up. Let's try and get the spotlight on Ireland and their alleged misdeeds. Couple of cherry-picked photos to prove the point as well!

The extent to which I care about the winner of France Ireland can be overstated - it doesn't matter who does it and in what circumstances it's a shit tactic that makes for boring rugby and shouldn't be facilitated by the referees.

I don't mind a proper "choke tackle" when "choke" is not applied literally, as it sanctions poor attitude into contact and can be a great defensive weapon. But it has to be done properly, i.e. not wrapping the arms around the neck / head of the tackled player and not bringing the maul to the ground.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Just a dull anti rugby tactic that refs reward with their arm already outstretched for a scrum before they even hit the turf. As mentioned if it's a maul then the defenders have brought it down and it's a penalty, if not it's a tackle and they need to roll away. Regardless more often than not Ireland are doing it in a way that were it to happen against them Sexton would be calling for oxygen.

If it's foul play, it would have been penalised a long time ago and it hasn't happened, not even once in my recollection.

But yes, game against France coming up. Let's try and get the spotlight on Ireland and their alleged misdeeds. Couple of cherry-picked photos to prove the point as well!

The extent to which I care about the winner of France Ireland can be overstated - it doesn't matter who does it and in what circumstances it's a shit tactic that makes for boring rugby and shouldn't be facilitated by the referees.

It should be kept in mind it's a tactic which allows one to select some smaller units in midfield, have then work as a unit and/or with some of the pack and force the turnover. Take away the choke and you will encourage bigger lumps to smash into contact being selected over said smaller units.

Perhaps it's not well reffed at times, but it serves a purpose. Not sure it is that badly reffed though, if anything attack is keener to get to ground than defence, defence is confident of the put in either way.

[JM2K6]

If it's foul play, it would have been penalised a long time ago and it hasn't happened, not even once in my recollection.

But yes, game against France coming up. Let's try and get the spotlight on Ireland and their alleged misdeeds. Couple of cherry-picked photos to prove the point as well!

The extent to which I care about the winner of France Ireland can be overstated - it doesn't matter who does it and in what circumstances it's a shit tactic that makes for boring rugby and shouldn't be facilitated by the referees.

It should be kept in mind it's a tactic which allows one to select some smaller units in midfield, have then work as a unit and/or with some of the pack and force the turnover. Take away the choke and you will encourage bigger lumps to smash into contact being selected over said smaller units.

Perhaps it's not well reffed at times, but it serves a purpose. Not sure it is that badly reffed though, if anything attack is keener to get to ground than defence, defence is confident of the put in either way.

I er... am not sure that works in the context of Ireland, who've usually had at least one big lump in midfield, be it Henshaw or Aki or whoever. And Sexton is a big bloke for a 10. I don't think it's allowed for smaller players at all.

[Uncle fester]

If they try to slip out of a hold on the chest, they contribute to the situation.
Get a video clip of the above and then we'll talk.

At which point the tackler should release, surely?

Maybe he did and the others didn't because there was no requirement for them to do so.
Get the clip and we'll talk. Pointless talking about a single point snapshot of a dynamic situation.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I'm not saying the choke cannot be done by bigger players, just that rugby is now something of a collision sport and the choke is an option for the smaller player that keeps them in the game and avoids some of the negatives of losing contact.

And it's hardly the only consideration, just it is a factor.

[pjm1]

If it's foul play, it would have been penalised a long time ago and it hasn't happened, not even once in my recollection.

But yes, game against France coming up. Let's try and get the spotlight on Ireland and their alleged misdeeds. Couple of cherry-picked photos to prove the point as well!

Are you saying that the tackles are ok on these photos?

Photos can be misleading. Clips would be better.

Pretty sure that's what Eddie Jones said to Ben Youngs back in 2016...

[Ymx]

I'm not saying the choke cannot be done by bigger players, just that rugby is now something of a collision sport and the choke is an option for the smaller player that keeps them in the game and avoids some of the negatives of losing contact.

And it's hardly the only consideration, just it is a factor.

I must admit I was not aware it was the smaller guys doing it. Thought it was more likely the big boys holding the smaller guys off the ground with their natural upward leverage they have.

[JM2K6]

I'm not saying the choke cannot be done by bigger players, just that rugby is now something of a collision sport and the choke is an option for the smaller player that keeps them in the game and avoids some of the negatives of losing contact.

And it's hardly the only consideration, just it is a factor.

I must admit I was not aware it was the smaller guys doing it. Thought it was more likely the big boys holding the smaller guys off the ground with their natural upward leverage they have.

R&C is confusing "hang on to someone until help arrives" for a choke tackle.