The Met: the force that keeps on giving

[Torquemada 1420]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60757031

AND

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-60118874

[Uncle fester]

Re the second one, I await the "should have done what she was told" apologists.

[Torquemada 1420]

Re the second one, I await the "should have done what she was told" apologists.

I'm sure they are out in force already on social media.

[SaintK]

They are both outrageous
But FFS strip search aa 15 year old girl and tell her to remove her sanitary towel because she "smelled of cannabis"
Yet another two glorious episodes from the Met under that nice Dame Cressida
Good luck to the next commissioner in changing those attitudes.

[ASMO]

They are both outrageous
But FFS strip search aa 15 year old girl and tell her to remove her sanitary towel because she "smelled of cannabis"
Yet another two glorious episodes from the Met under that nice Dame Cressida
Good luck to the next commissioner in changing those attitudes.

That witch is holding out for a 500k payoff.

[Happyhooker]

They are both outrageous
But FFS strip search aa 15 year old girl and tell her to remove her sanitary towel because she "smelled of cannabis"
Yet another two glorious episodes from the Met under that nice Dame Cressida
Good luck to the next commissioner in changing those attitudes.

That witch is holding out for a 500k payoff.

And good for her.

My local police station is full of absolute scum. Historically they were the most corrupt in London, now they're just total cunts. (They're the ones responsible for both cases above).

[ASMO]

They are both outrageous
But FFS strip search aa 15 year old girl and tell her to remove her sanitary towel because she "smelled of cannabis"
Yet another two glorious episodes from the Met under that nice Dame Cressida
Good luck to the next commissioner in changing those attitudes.

That witch is holding out for a 500k payoff.

And good for her.

My local police station is full of absolute scum. Historically they were the most corrupt in London, now they're just total cunts. (They're the ones responsible for both cases above).

I think you mis-read my post, Cressida (the (Dick) is the one holding out for the cash

[Blackmac]

Both appear to be examples of unbelievably bad policing. All strip searches, even in custody need to be authorised by an Inspector or above and require high levels of justification which I can't see how either of these cases would come even remotely close to.
The Met has always been regarded as the absolute gutter by other forces and they never fail to live up to it.

[Biffer]

How could anyone, anywhere, think they were in the right by strip searching a fifteen year old girl with out consent and presence of a relative or guardian?

Any officer who thought they were ok to do that is so removed from the norms of regular society that their presence in the police force is just completely wrong.

[dpedin]

Folk will no doubt come back with the usual 'bad apples' excuse and that the rest of the Met are fine upstanding officers. Unfortunately institutional racism is about those within the Met who know what is happening, witness it or hear about it and stand by and do nothing, they are just as culpable as the perpetrators. If they feel unable to raise concerns with their senior officers, trade union or don't trust the whistleblowing processes then this is a clear indication of institutional racism or bullying. Those at the top of the Met denying this are either part of the problem and implicitly support the disgraceful culture or else are incompetent, there are just too many instances now that can be explained away with the 'bad apple' excuse.

[PCPhil]

Re the second one, I await the "should have done what she was told" apologists.

I'm sure they are out in force already on social media.

Dear therapy group. My name is Bimbo and I have a problem……….

[Happyhooker]

That witch is holding out for a 500k payoff.

And good for her.

My local police station is full of absolute scum. Historically they were the most corrupt in London, now they're just total cunts. (They're the ones responsible for both cases above).

I think you mis-read my post, Cressida (the (Dick) is the one holding out for the cash

Ah, fair.

Seemed a little bit of an odd position for you to take the way I originally interpreted it!

[Torquemada 1420]

That witch is holding out for a 500k payoff.

And good for her.

My local police station is full of absolute scum. Historically they were the most corrupt in London, now they're just total cunts. (They're the ones responsible for both cases above).

I think you mis-read my post, Cressida (the (Dick) is the one holding out for the cash

I'm glad you cleared that up. I read it several times and thought HH might have lost the plot.

[Torquemada 1420]

How could anyone, anywhere, think they were in the right by strip searching a fifteen year old girl with out consent and presence of a relative or guardian?

Any officer who thought they were ok to do that is so removed from the norms of regular society that their presence in the police force is just completely wrong.

I had assumed that this would have been several years ago and only just become public. But 2020 FFS. Given the reams of stuff that has been in the public eye for a decade now and there are still serving officers whose lack of awareness and/or arrogance think they can behave like this. As dpedin and biffer highlight, it shows that the Met remains rotten throughout.

[Hugo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60757031

Strikes me that the school is at fault on this one too. Why involve police just because she smells of cannabis? Call in the parents for a meeting, send her home, have some sort of intervention but why call in the cavalry for this? This should be handled in house.

[Mahoney]

Leaving aside the morality, I find it startling how stupid the met are. That oligarch mansion the other day - what did they think it would look like, sending in 20 odd riot police?! Did they want to look like Putin's goons? Are their sympathies with the oligarchs, and by extension Russia? Because that's what it looked like. And as for the ridiculous "we would have done this for any squat" claim - everyone knows that isn't true! What do they think they are achieving by claiming something so obviously untrue, other than damaging their own reputation yet further?

It was the same with the policing of the Sarah Everard vigil. If you wanted really to damage your image with the general public, that was the way to do it! Beat up a bunch of women remembering a woman raped & murdered by one of your colleagues! That neither the people in charge nor the people on the ground were able to see that is genuinely staggering.

It's all a bit Conquest's Law - the behaviour of any bureaucratic organisation can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies.

[sockwithaticket]

Leaving aside the morality, I find it startling how stupid the met are. That oligarch mansion the other day - what did they think it would look like, sending in 20 odd riot police?! Did they want to look like Putin's goons? Are their sympathies with the oligarchs, and by extension Russia? Because that's what it looked like. And as for the ridiculous "we would have done this for any squat" claim - everyone knows that isn't true! What do they think they are achieving by claiming something so obviously untrue, other than damaging their own reputation yet further?

It was the same with the policing of the Sarah Everard vigil. If you wanted really to damage your image with the general public, that was the way to do it! Beat up a bunch of women remembering a woman raped & murdered by one of your colleagues! That neither the people in charge nor the people on the ground were able to see that is genuinely staggering.
It's all a bit Conquest's Law - the behaviour of any bureaucratic organisation can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies.

They see it, but they don't care. What tangible consequences are there?

This goes for the worst of our politicians too, if not held back by a sense of morality or shame at being perceived poorly by others there is very little stopping them from behaving abominably,

[Blackmac]

How could anyone, anywhere, think they were in the right by strip searching a fifteen year old girl with out consent and presence of a relative or guardian?

Any officer who thought they were ok to do that is so removed from the norms of regular society that their presence in the police force is just completely wrong.

They actually can, in certain circumstances, in the presence of appropriate members of the school staff. Generally it would require the immediate search to prevent harm to the child or any other person, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case here.

[Blackmac]

Leaving aside the morality, I find it startling how stupid the met are. That oligarch mansion the other day - what did they think it would look like, sending in 20 odd riot police?! Did they want to look like Putin's goons? Are their sympathies with the oligarchs, and by extension Russia? Because that's what it looked like. And as for the ridiculous "we would have done this for any squat" claim - everyone knows that isn't true! What do they think they are achieving by claiming something so obviously untrue, other than damaging their own reputation yet further?

It was the same with the policing of the Sarah Everard vigil. If you wanted really to damage your image with the general public, that was the way to do it! Beat up a bunch of women remembering a woman raped & murdered by one of your colleagues! That neither the people in charge nor the people on the ground were able to see that is genuinely staggering.

It's all a bit Conquest's Law - the behaviour of any bureaucratic organisation can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies.

Oddly enough, in Police Scotland, public perception and reputational damage would be very high up in the decision making process. Some of the shit the Met pull, time and time again appears to be jaw droppingly stupid.

[Torquemada 1420]

It's all a bit Conquest's Law - the behaviour of any bureaucratic organisation can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies.

"Any organisation that is not explicitly right wing... " would apply too.

[Brazil]

Leaving aside the morality, I find it startling how stupid the met are. That oligarch mansion the other day - what did they think it would look like, sending in 20 odd riot police?! Did they want to look like Putin's goons? Are their sympathies with the oligarchs, and by extension Russia? Because that's what it looked like. And as for the ridiculous "we would have done this for any squat" claim - everyone knows that isn't true! What do they think they are achieving by claiming something so obviously untrue, other than damaging their own reputation yet further?

It was the same with the policing of the Sarah Everard vigil. If you wanted really to damage your image with the general public, that was the way to do it! Beat up a bunch of women remembering a woman raped & murdered by one of your colleagues! That neither the people in charge nor the people on the ground were able to see that is genuinely staggering.

It's all a bit Conquest's Law - the behaviour of any bureaucratic organisation can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies.

Oddly enough, in Police Scotland, public perception and reputational damage would be very high up in the decision making process. Some of the shit the Met pull, time and time again appears to be jaw droppingly stupid.

See also the Met Federation declaring they had no confidence in Sadiq Khan after the sacking of Cressida Dick. though to be fair, the lulz on twitter were something to behold.

[Biffer]

How could anyone, anywhere, think they were in the right by strip searching a fifteen year old girl with out consent and presence of a relative or guardian?

Any officer who thought they were ok to do that is so removed from the norms of regular society that their presence in the police force is just completely wrong.

They actually can, in certain circumstances, in the presence of appropriate members of the school staff. Generally it would require the immediate search to prevent harm to the child or any other person, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case here.

You're equating being legally in the right with being morally in the right. I don't actually care whether or not they were technically allowed to do it, my point is that morally it's repugnant, unnecessary and really, really fucking stupid.

[Uncle fester]

Both appear to be examples of unbelievably bad policing. All strip searches, even in custody need to be authorised by an Inspector or above and require high levels of justification which I can't see how either of these cases would come even remotely close to.
The Met has always been regarded as the absolute gutter by other forces and they never fail to live up to it.

What's the root cause in your opinion?

• Poor/insufficient training?

• Bad leadership?

• Institutionalised bad behaviour?

The Gardai over here can be a pig ignorant bunch but nowhere near the constant scandals that follow the Met around.

[Blackmac]

How could anyone, anywhere, think they were in the right by strip searching a fifteen year old girl with out consent and presence of a relative or guardian?

Any officer who thought they were ok to do that is so removed from the norms of regular society that their presence in the police force is just completely wrong.

They actually can, in certain circumstances, in the presence of appropriate members of the school staff. Generally it would require the immediate search to prevent harm to the child or any other person, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case here.

You're equating being legally in the right with being morally in the right. I don't actually care whether or not they were technically allowed to do it, my point is that morally it's repugnant, unnecessary and really, really fucking stupid.

I would argue that the circumstances outlined in the second part of my post would certainly appear to be morally right.

[Blackmac]

Both appear to be examples of unbelievably bad policing. All strip searches, even in custody need to be authorised by an Inspector or above and require high levels of justification which I can't see how either of these cases would come even remotely close to.
The Met has always been regarded as the absolute gutter by other forces and they never fail to live up to it.

What's the root cause in your opinion?

• Poor/insufficient training?
  Bad leadership?
  Institutionalised bad behaviour?

Jesus, some of what they get up to is so fucking stupid it is hard to even guess. Certainly poor training is a factor. When I joined the training was more extensive and tutor constables were always 20 year veterans. Now much of the training has been compressed and tutors are often just out of their probation themselves. It's a continually erosive factor. There are a lot of good kids still joining the police but they are being massively let down.

[Biffer]

They actually can, in certain circumstances, in the presence of appropriate members of the school staff. Generally it would require the immediate search to prevent harm to the child or any other person, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case here.

You're equating being legally in the right with being morally in the right. I don't actually care whether or not they were technically allowed to do it, my point is that morally it's repugnant, unnecessary and really, really fucking stupid.

I would argue that the circumstances outlined in the second part of my post would certainly appear to be morally right.

Not following you there - the second part of your post says it doesn't seem to be the case that it was justified, doesn't it?

[Grandpa]

Both appear to be examples of unbelievably bad policing. All strip searches, even in custody need to be authorised by an Inspector or above and require high levels of justification which I can't see how either of these cases would come even remotely close to.
The Met has always been regarded as the absolute gutter by other forces and they never fail to live up to it.

What's the root cause in your opinion?

• Poor/insufficient training?
  Bad leadership?
  Institutionalised bad behaviour?

Jesus, some of what they get up to is so fucking stupid it is hard to even guess. Certainly poor training is a factor. When I joined the training was more extensive and tutor constables were always 20 year veterans. Now much of the training has been compressed and tutors are often just out of their probation themselves. It's a continually erosive factor. There are a lot of good kids still joining the police but they are being massively let down.

Maybe a more stringent character assessment before letting someone join the police? Better background checks as well?

[SaintK]

What's the root cause in your opinion?

• Poor/insufficient training?
  Bad leadership?
  Institutionalised bad behaviour?

Jesus, some of what they get up to is so fucking stupid it is hard to even guess. Certainly poor training is a factor. When I joined the training was more extensive and tutor constables were always 20 year veterans. Now much of the training has been compressed and tutors are often just out of their probation themselves. It's a continually erosive factor. There are a lot of good kids still joining the police but they are being massively let down.

Maybe a more stringent character assessment before letting someone join the police? Better background checks as well?

Aren't most forces under staffed and desperate to recruit? Certainly The Met is.

[Hugo]

What's the root cause in your opinion?

• Poor/insufficient training?
  Bad leadership?
  Institutionalised bad behaviour?

Jesus, some of what they get up to is so fucking stupid it is hard to even guess. Certainly poor training is a factor. When I joined the training was more extensive and tutor constables were always 20 year veterans. Now much of the training has been compressed and tutors are often just out of their probation themselves. It's a continually erosive factor. There are a lot of good kids still joining the police but they are being massively let down.

Maybe a more stringent character assessment before letting someone join the police? Better background checks as well?

If the issue is systemic and institutional (ie. not because of a few random bad apples) then better vetting doesn't seem like its going to make a massive dent on the problem. Its the prevailing culture that the recruits are being inducted into that seems the issue and to fix that you have to start at the very top.

[Hugo]

Although it wouldn't hurt to have a higher calibre of recruit. Someone who would subject a 15 year old to a strip search because they smell of cannabis is just completely out of touch with reality, lacking in common sense and empathy.

At best that kid and her family will now have a lifelong distrust of the police.

[Happyhooker]

You're focusing on the police here and yes, their actions were completely out of order.

I know a lot of teachers here in hackney (not from that school) and they are all outraged by the teachers' behaviour. There are much better routes to take in this kind of situation

[dpedin]

Jesus, some of what they get up to is so fucking stupid it is hard to even guess. Certainly poor training is a factor. When I joined the training was more extensive and tutor constables were always 20 year veterans. Now much of the training has been compressed and tutors are often just out of their probation themselves. It's a continually erosive factor. There are a lot of good kids still joining the police but they are being massively let down.

Maybe a more stringent character assessment before letting someone join the police? Better background checks as well?

If the issue is systemic and institutional (ie. not because of a few random bad apples) then better vetting doesn't seem like its going to make a massive dent on the problem. Its the prevailing culture that the recruits are being inducted into that seems the issue and to fix that you have to start at the very top.

This - the fish rots from the head. I suspect Sadiq Khan knew a lot more about this and probably other cases in the system that led him to saying he had no confidence in Dick. Turning around the Met is a huge job and will require a strong Commissioner who will need to set standards, systems and processes to establish a new culture, they will however face huge opposition from the existing senior/middle ranking officers who will be fearful their little 'fiefdoms' are under threat and they will perhaps need to bring in their own guys to help them sort it out. It may need some major restructuring of the Met which will upset a few senior officers. It is a 3-5 year job for someone who will probably see it as their last job prior to retirement and who will need secure political backing from Home Office and London Mayor etc to make it happen.. This is a make or break appointment and it needs to be right. Good luck to them!

[Blackmac]

You're equating being legally in the right with being morally in the right. I don't actually care whether or not they were technically allowed to do it, my point is that morally it's repugnant, unnecessary and really, really fucking stupid.

I would argue that the circumstances outlined in the second part of my post would certainly appear to be morally right.

Not following you there - the second part of your post says it doesn't seem to be the case that it was justified, doesn't it?

The point about doing it with the intention of preventing harm. That's clearly a moral obligation. Not trying to justify this instance but just pointing out circumstances where it would be.

[Glaston]

It is not just the Met though.

Various Forces all over the country have made huge errors and have had Chief Constables/Senior officers not held to account.

Cleveland/Wiltshire/Greater Manchester/S Yorkshire all pretty poor (and those are just the ones I can think of straight away)
The whole Carl Beech/Operation Midland and Operation Conifer fiasco


The Police Complaints people seem toothless and seem to have odd working practices

Police with blemished records being allowed to continue to work/get promoted .

[Blackmac]

Jesus, some of what they get up to is so fucking stupid it is hard to even guess. Certainly poor training is a factor. When I joined the training was more extensive and tutor constables were always 20 year veterans. Now much of the training has been compressed and tutors are often just out of their probation themselves. It's a continually erosive factor. There are a lot of good kids still joining the police but they are being massively let down.

Maybe a more stringent character assessment before letting someone join the police? Better background checks as well?

Aren't most forces under staffed and desperate to recruit? Certainly The Met is.

Yep. 30 years ago my old force, Lothian and Borders has approximately 250 applicants for every spot. I would imagine there is still a bit of competition but certainly nothing like that.

There has been a systematic move towards all degree qualified recruits which has excluded a large proportion of applicants who have traditionally made good officers. My own opinion was there was a lot of naivety among a large amount if the younger recruits. Essentially kids straight out of Uni with little or no life skills.

[inactionman]

It is not just the Met though.

Various Forces all over the country have made huge errors and have had Chief Constables/Senior officers not held to account.

Cleveland/Wiltshire/Greater Manchester/S Yorkshire all pretty poor (and those are just the ones I can think of straight away)
The whole Carl Beech/Operation Midland and Operation Conifer fiasco


The Police Complaints people seem toothless and seem to have odd working practices

Police with blemished records being allowed to continue to work/get promoted .

Given what I know of Hillsborough and Orgreave, that force in the 80s looked like one old nutter's personal fiefdom. Contributing to the deaths of a lot of people.

Hoping it's not like that nowadays?

[Grandpa]

So is the problem society as much as the police then? Are they just a reflection of us?

Or is something rotten to the core throughout the UK police force system that needs attention from the top and bottom.. and everything inbetween?

I don't know if that's the case.. just pondering aloud...

[Slick]

So is the problem society as much as the police then? Are they just a reflection of us?

Or is something rotten to the core throughout the UK police force system that needs attention from the top and bottom.. and everything inbetween?

I don't know if that's the case.. just pondering aloud...

That’s a good point actually. I grew up terrified of getting in trouble with the police and as I got older had a healthy respect for them. Kids, in all parts of society now seem to have lost that, not all of course, but right through from the ones that don’t give a shit to the smart arses filming on their phones. Policing seems to be seen by that generation as something you do if you can’t do anything else rather than a vocation, and that leads to that disrespect.

[Torquemada 1420]

This - the fish rots from the head. I suspect Sadiq Khan knew a lot more about this and probably other cases in the system that led him to saying he had no confidence in Dick. Turning around the Met is a huge job and will require a strong Commissioner who will need to set standards, systems and processes to establish a new culture, they will however face huge opposition from the existing senior/middle ranking officers who will be fearful their little 'fiefdoms' are under threat and they will perhaps need to bring in their own guys to help them sort it out. It may need some major restructuring of the Met which will upset a few senior officers. It is a 3-5 year job for someone who will probably see it as their last job prior to retirement and who will need secure political backing from Home Office and London Mayor etc to make it happen.. This is a make or break appointment and it needs to be right. Good luck to them!

I don't think it's possible. The only answer is to break the Met up completely into the surrounding forces: Thames Valley, Essex, Surrey, Herts & Kent.

[Ymx]

Leaving aside the morality, I find it startling how stupid the met are. That oligarch mansion the other day - what did they think it would look like, sending in 20 odd riot police?! Did they want to look like Putin's goons? Are their sympathies with the oligarchs, and by extension Russia? Because that's what it looked like. And as for the ridiculous "we would have done this for any squat" claim - everyone knows that isn't true! What do they think they are achieving by claiming something so obviously untrue, other than damaging their own reputation yet further?

It was the same with the policing of the Sarah Everard vigil. If you wanted really to damage your image with the general public, that was the way to do it! Beat up a bunch of women remembering a woman raped & murdered by one of your colleagues! That neither the people in charge nor the people on the ground were able to see that is genuinely staggering.

It's all a bit Conquest's Law - the behaviour of any bureaucratic organisation can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies.

when you put it like that, that’s a serious number of own goals indeed.