Climate change

[Biffer]

The synthesis of the 6th report from the IPCC, published this week, is pretty devastating

https://report.ipcc.ch/ar6syr/pdf/IPCC_AR6_SYR_SPM.pdf

The evidence for man made global warming is now unequivocal.

If you don’t do something about this now, your grandchildren will think you were fucking idiots.

[yermum]

I have an ev solar and don't take long haul flights.

I only invest in green funds and use sustainable products where ever I can.

What else should I do?

[inactionman]

I have an ev solar and don't take long haul flights.

I only invest in green funds and use sustainable products where ever I can.

What else should I do?

If you can make the likes of India and China not burn fossil fuels that would be handy.

Being serious, it all helps, and investments in EVs etc help a market and economy of scale that makes the technology more globally viable.

I took it all so seriously I want an bought a Renault Zoe, so I can fell all self-righteous that, to save the Earth, I actually bought a French car.

[Jim Lahey]

I am no expert on climate change.

But I don't see how the world can pursue perpetual economic growth at the behest of investment funds/banks, solve inequality, resolve world hunger and improve things like water availability/treatment, with 8 or however many billion people on the planet, while at the same time reducing consumption and being greener.

I think the big elephants in the room that need addressed are either a global shift in economic model away from consumption (never going to happen) or reducing the global population through more contraception and letting old and ailing people die off (also never going to happen).

A potential third way is technological advances to increase the energy supply on the planet, cheaply and efficiently, while simultaneously reducing carbon emissions and raw material extraction. Then moving onto the two above scenarios which neither will happen.

We are fucked lads.

[inactionman]

The synthesis of the 6th report from the IPCC, published this week, is pretty devastating

https://report.ipcc.ch/ar6syr/pdf/IPCC_AR6_SYR_SPM.pdf

The evidence for man made global warming is now unequivocal.

If you don’t do something about this now, your grandchildren will think you were fucking idiots.

I'm wondering if - given the undeniable evidence of the damage it has caused and continues to cause - countries like the US should apply sanctions to states and actors that proactively push coal, oil and gas. I'm actually wondering more 'how' as we're really at last chance saloon here.

An alternative would be to make the oil and gas companies liable (even to the point of making it part of licences to extract) for any damage caused by the use of their product - homes being flooded due to rising sea levels etc - even if only indirectly liable. I've read a few interviews with American oil barons who argue blindly that climate change is a hoax, if they truly believe that then let them put money where mouth is, and get it tested in court.

There's no real disinventive that I can see for producers and users of oil and gas to switch to green alternatives, other than good PR and the carbon credit stuff which can be greenwashed anyway. The incentives - feed-in tariffs etc - tend to be piecemeal and time-limited.

[Line6 HXFX]

It is so serious I am completely fuking rigid.
I mean I live on a hill, in a nice house, 1350 feet up. My property will be worth a fortune in 10 years, with its sea view.

Remember those twats all over rugby forums saying it was bullshit?
Some had like 25 thpusand posts and would argue all day long.

There is a lot of f'king "wrong, wrong wrong wrong" going on with rugby supporters.

[Slick]

I have an ev solar and don't take long haul flights.

I only invest in green funds and use sustainable products where ever I can.

What else should I do?

I think those of us that are bothered should just continue doing our little bit but there is not much going to change dramatically. At a very local level things can improve - I think Edinburgh decreased it's air pollution levels quite decently over the last few years - but at a global level, we are fucked. Also worth noting that even at the local level here in the UK, which seems to be making decent strides, hardly anyone actually gives a fuck.

I was in Bangkok over new year and it kind of put everything into perspective. I do what I can but when you see entire cities belching out fumes 24 hours a day with no serious hope of EV's reaching them any time soon it is kind of depressing.

[assfly]

My perspective of climate change out here is quite different.

For the vast majority of the population, their priority is where the next meal is going to come from. So that means cutting trees in a protected forest to sell charcoal, how do we convince them otherwise.

To be quite crass, climate change is a developed world problem.

[Big D]

I have an ev solar and don't take long haul flights.

I only invest in green funds and use sustainable products where ever I can.

What else should I do?

Even solar cells come with pitfalls for those who think about slavery etc.

The In Broad Daylight Report estimates that 97% of polysilicon solar panels in the world contain elements that can be linked to forced labour camps in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR) of China.
https://www.shu.ac.uk/helena-kennedy-ce ... d-daylight

On the climate, until countries and industry take it seriously there is little we can do.

[inactionman]

My perspective of climate change out here is quite different.

For the vast majority of the population, their priority is where the next meal is going to come from. So that means cutting trees in a protected forest to sell charcoal, how do we convince them otherwise.

To be quite crass, climate change is a developed world problem.

I understand there's many factors which influence behaviours, and these factors are different across the world, but many in developed nations will have a similar attitude - 'I'll drive my gas guzzler to the steak restaurant and I'll continue to buy my imported fruit and veg in single-use plastics'. Of course, that is through indifference and laziness rather than need, but the same problem - how to get individuals acting for the common good.

On top of that, if anything climate change is a developing world problem as they're generally going to have correspondingly fewer resources to deal with impacts of change. Droughts, flooding, crop failures, etc etc.

[assfly]

On top of that, if anything climate change is a developing world problem as they're generally going to have correspondingly fewer resources to deal with impacts of change. Droughts, flooding, crop failures, etc etc.

This is the most utterly infuriating part of it.

[Biffer]

My perspective of climate change out here is quite different.

For the vast majority of the population, their priority is where the next meal is going to come from. So that means cutting trees in a protected forest to sell charcoal, how do we convince them otherwise.

To be quite crass, climate change is a developed world problem.

I understand that, but unfortunately most of the worst impacts will be in the developing world.

Ideally, a combination of countries and communities getting paid for their carbon sinks (forests, mangrove swamps etc.) by polluters, and good governance allowing that to happen would be the path to a solution, but that's very easily said from a position in the developed world, and difficult in the extreme to do.

[Slick]

My perspective of climate change out here is quite different.

For the vast majority of the population, their priority is where the next meal is going to come from. So that means cutting trees in a protected forest to sell charcoal, how do we convince them otherwise.

To be quite crass, climate change is a developed world problem.

I understand that, but unfortunately most of the worst impacts will be in the developing world.

Ideally, a combination of countries and communities getting paid for their carbon sinks (forests, mangrove swamps etc.) by polluters, and good governance allowing that to happen would be the path to a solution, but that's very easily said from a position in the developed world, and difficult in the extreme to do.

I'm currently involved in an $8.5billion energy transition pledge to the SA government from UK/US/EU. Will be interesting to see the impact and see what the governance is like. I'm not expecting much to be honest.

[Biffer]

I am no expert on climate change.

But I don't see how the world can pursue perpetual economic growth at the behest of investment funds/banks, solve inequality, resolve world hunger and improve things like water availability/treatment, with 8 or however many billion people on the planet, while at the same time reducing consumption and being greener.

I think the big elephants in the room that need addressed are either a global shift in economic model away from consumption (never going to happen) or reducing the global population through more contraception and letting old and ailing people die off (also never going to happen).

A potential third way is technological advances to increase the energy supply on the planet, cheaply and efficiently, while simultaneously reducing carbon emissions and raw material extraction. Then moving onto the two above scenarios which neither will happen.

We are fucked lads.

The consumption thing is a major problem. The developed world has focussed their carbon reduction on production and now points to that as evidence of their progress. But the richest 10% still consumes goods that produce 50% of the carbon pollution.

Moving away from purely GDP growth should be the aim of developed countries, measuring your progress as a country in terms of Human Development Index, some of the abysmally names happiness indices or wellbeing measures instead of GDP would be a big changes. These all measure a different variety of things like health and life expectancy, education, quality of life in different forms, etc etc. Changing to ethical consumption might be possible - public info campaigns can change public attitudes (best example is drink driving) - it's about redefining what wealthy or prosperous or successful actually means. But the will has to be there; you'd have to stigmatise over consumption of meat, new tech every year, and all sorts of other common behaviours.

[Biffer]

My perspective of climate change out here is quite different.

For the vast majority of the population, their priority is where the next meal is going to come from. So that means cutting trees in a protected forest to sell charcoal, how do we convince them otherwise.

To be quite crass, climate change is a developed world problem.

I understand that, but unfortunately most of the worst impacts will be in the developing world.

Ideally, a combination of countries and communities getting paid for their carbon sinks (forests, mangrove swamps etc.) by polluters, and good governance allowing that to happen would be the path to a solution, but that's very easily said from a position in the developed world, and difficult in the extreme to do.

I'm currently involved in an $8.5billion energy transition pledge to the SA government from UK/US/EU. Will be interesting to see the impact and see what the governance is like. I'm not expecting much to be honest.

Good luck. Systemic change is fucking hard.

[Biffer]

I have an ev solar and don't take long haul flights.

I only invest in green funds and use sustainable products where ever I can.

What else should I do?

I did say 'if you don't do something'. If the entire developed world was acting the same way we'd be in a better position.

The main thing you can do from there is show other people how good it is to live that way. (And eat less meat!)

[Hal Jordan]

I can't wait for the climate refugees to reach the UK. A double whammy of illegal brown people and #climatescam for GB News to sink its beer and fag stained teeth into.

[Jim Lahey]

I can't wait for the climate refugees to reach the UK. A double whammy of illegal brown people and #climatescam for GB News to sink its beer and fag stained teeth into.

Your Santa wish list must be a hoot.

[Guy Smiley]

I can't wait for the climate refugees to reach the UK. A double whammy of illegal brown people and #climatescam for GB News to sink its beer and fag stained teeth into.

Your Santa wish list must be a hoot.

He has a point though. The confluence of climate refugees and severe weather events might cause some sort of awakening.

[Biffer]

I can't wait for the climate refugees to reach the UK. A double whammy of illegal brown people and #climatescam for GB News to sink its beer and fag stained teeth into.

Your Santa wish list must be a hoot.

He has a point though. The confluence of climate refugees and severe weather events might cause some sort of awakening.

Yeah. Hard to send them back when where they're living is uninhabitable.

We'll probably reach agreement to send them to Svalsbard or something.

[Guy Smiley]

The irony here is that perhaps the more complacent deniers become the refugees.

[yermum]

My perspective of climate change out here is quite different.

For the vast majority of the population, their priority is where the next meal is going to come from. So that means cutting trees in a protected forest to sell charcoal, how do we convince them otherwise.

To be quite crass, climate change is a developed world problem.

Yeah it definitely our problem to solve but the developing world will feel the pain before we do.

It was working in Kenya and Nigeria that opened my eyes to the reality as even 15 years ago climate change was starting to cause problems.

[yermum]

I have an ev solar and don't take long haul flights.

I only invest in green funds and use sustainable products where ever I can.

What else should I do?

I did say 'if you don't do something'. If the entire developed world was acting the same way we'd be in a better position.

The main thing you can do from there is show other people how good it is to live that way. (And eat less meat!)

The sad fact is is that I can only live like this because of relative wealth. Even in the UK the average person is more concerned with paying the mortgage and feeding the family than insulation and solar panels.

[Guy Smiley]

My perspective of climate change out here is quite different.

For the vast majority of the population, their priority is where the next meal is going to come from. So that means cutting trees in a protected forest to sell charcoal, how do we convince them otherwise.

To be quite crass, climate change is a developed world problem.

Yeah it definitely our problem to solve but the developing world will feel the pain before we do.

It was working in Kenya and Nigeria that opened my eyes to the reality as even 15 years ago climate change was starting to cause problems.

It takes dramatic events to ram the message home in the more privileged countries, those where popular media drive opinion more than real world events. NZ got a bit of a wake up call this summer with unprecedented rainfall through three seperate storm events... wide spread damage and loss to the nation's coddled farming sector can't be ignored and suddenly all the talk is climate change where it had been something 'poor little old NZ' couldn't do anything about as other, bigger countries were the problem.

[Biffer]

I have an ev solar and don't take long haul flights.

I only invest in green funds and use sustainable products where ever I can.

What else should I do?

I did say 'if you don't do something'. If the entire developed world was acting the same way we'd be in a better position.

The main thing you can do from there is show other people how good it is to live that way. (And eat less meat!)

The sad fact is is that I can only live like this because of relative wealth. Even in the UK the average person is more concerned with paying the mortgage and feeding the family than insulation and solar panels.

Yeah, but the world, and people, are about aspiration. What do we as individuals want to achieve? How do we want our families to live? If we redefine what wealth looks like so that it is almost ostentatiously green and zero (or negative) carbon, that changes the aspirations of others and starts to drive progress towards that as a goal at a macro as well as a micro level. People aspire to global holidays, big cars, showy lifestyles because that's how the wealthy live currently. Change the image of what people aspire to and you change their behaviours as they grow.

[Biffer]

My perspective of climate change out here is quite different.

For the vast majority of the population, their priority is where the next meal is going to come from. So that means cutting trees in a protected forest to sell charcoal, how do we convince them otherwise.

To be quite crass, climate change is a developed world problem.

Yeah it definitely our problem to solve but the developing world will feel the pain before we do.

It was working in Kenya and Nigeria that opened my eyes to the reality as even 15 years ago climate change was starting to cause problems.

It takes dramatic events to ram the message home in the more privileged countries, those where popular media drive opinion more than real world events. NZ got a bit of a wake up call this summer with unprecedented rainfall through three seperate storm events... wide spread damage and loss to the nation's coddled farming sector can't be ignored and suddenly all the talk is climate change where it had been something 'poor little old NZ' couldn't do anything about as other, bigger countries were the problem.

This also goes back to the production vs consumption portrayal of carbon production. Little countries like New Zealand and the UK have substantially larger consumption footprints than bigger, poorer countries.

[Guy Smiley]

This also goes back to the production vs consumption portrayal of carbon production. Little countries like New Zealand and the UK have substantially larger consumption footprints than bigger, poorer countries.

Yup, agreed. We need to embrace the concept of sustainability as a way of life. We live on a finite resource.

[assfly]

It was working in Kenya and Nigeria that opened my eyes to the reality as even 15 years ago climate change was starting to cause problems.

Kenya has made great strides in raising awareness, introducing electric buses, pushing the construction industry to be greener.

But at the same time, our forests are being devastated at a mind-boggling rate.

People are scratching their heads as to why the water levels in the lakes in the rift valley are rising, causing untold damage to those who live around the lakes. Meanwhile, the hills surrounding the lakes are being stripped bare, but nobody is talking about that as a likely cause. It's weird, it's like we've created our own climate change problems.

[yermum]

It was working in Kenya and Nigeria that opened my eyes to the reality as even 15 years ago climate change was starting to cause problems.

Kenya has made great strides in raising awareness, introducing electric buses, pushing the construction industry to be greener.

But at the same time, our forests are being devastated at a mind-boggling rate.

People are scratching their heads as to why the water levels in the lakes in the rift valley are rising, causing untold damage to those who live around the lakes. Meanwhile, the hills surrounding the lakes are being stripped bare, but nobody is talking about that as a likely cause. It's weird, it's like we've created our own climate change problems.

I loved my time there.

I always hoped to go back but I have decided not to take long haul flights so it will have to live in my memory.

Have a Tusker baridi sana for me.

[robmatic]

I did say 'if you don't do something'. If the entire developed world was acting the same way we'd be in a better position.

The main thing you can do from there is show other people how good it is to live that way. (And eat less meat!)

The sad fact is is that I can only live like this because of relative wealth. Even in the UK the average person is more concerned with paying the mortgage and feeding the family than insulation and solar panels.

Yeah, but the world, and people, are about aspiration. What do we as individuals want to achieve? How do we want our families to live? If we redefine what wealth looks like so that it is almost ostentatiously green and zero (or negative) carbon, that changes the aspirations of others and starts to drive progress towards that as a goal at a macro as well as a micro level. People aspire to global holidays, big cars, showy lifestyles because that's how the wealthy live currently. Change the image of what people aspire to and you change their behaviours as they grow.

A lot of the increased consumption or CO2 generation that will take place over the next few decades isn't really about aspiration to wealthy lifestyles though, or what we consider to be wealthy. There's a lot of change being driven worldwide by the desire to have what are basic amenities to people in the developed world. Decent roads, private vehicles, houses with multiple storeys etc.

[Ymx]

My perspective of climate change out here is quite different.

For the vast majority of the population, their priority is where the next meal is going to come from. So that means cutting trees in a protected forest to sell charcoal, how do we convince them otherwise.

To be quite crass, climate change is a developed world problem.

You tell that to Pakistan

[Ymx]

We just need way less people. Fucking India is dreadful.

I saw talk about Japan population dying out. It was noted only India and somewhere else we’re having net population gains.

Some Indian bloke responded without any irony, that India is once again saving the world!

[Mahoney]

Pretty sure the “too many people” thing is a bit simplistic; the Global North are 25% of the population but 92% of excess emissions. So you could halve the global population, but if you also levelled up you would increase excess emissions by 80% or so.

[Biffer]

We just need way less people. Fucking India is dreadful.

I saw talk about Japan population dying out. It was noted only India and somewhere else we’re having net population gains.

Some Indian bloke responded without any irony, that India is once again saving the world!

As said elsewhere, number of people doesn’t relate to high emissions. The population argument is in effect a way to blame poor people. We could eliminate more than Half the worlds population and still be in the same situation, because population reduction isn’t going to affect the big polluters in the developed world.

[assfly]

I loved my time there.

I always hoped to go back but I have decided not to take long haul flights so it will have to live in my memory.

Have a Tusker baridi sana for me.

Karibu tena

[Ymx]

We just need way less people. Fucking India is dreadful.

I saw talk about Japan population dying out. It was noted only India and somewhere else we’re having net population gains.

Some Indian bloke responded without any irony, that India is once again saving the world!

As said elsewhere, number of people doesn’t relate to high emissions. The population argument is in effect a way to blame poor people. We could eliminate more than Half the worlds population and still be in the same situation, because population reduction isn’t going to affect the big polluters in the developed world.

Well it does. The biggest 3 populations are at the top.


Top 10 CO2-emitting countries in the world (Total CO2 in Mt) - EU JRC 2020

China — 11680.42
United States — 4535.30
India — 2411.73
Russia — 1674.23
Japan — 1061.77
Iran — 690.24
Germany — 636.88
South Korea — 621.47
Saudi Arabia — 588.81
Indonesia — 568.27

[Biffer]

We just need way less people. Fucking India is dreadful.

I saw talk about Japan population dying out. It was noted only India and somewhere else we’re having net population gains.

Some Indian bloke responded without any irony, that India is once again saving the world!

As said elsewhere, number of people doesn’t relate to high emissions. The population argument is in effect a way to blame poor people. We could eliminate more than Half the worlds population and still be in the same situation, because population reduction isn’t going to affect the big polluters in the developed world.

Well it does. The biggest 3 populations are at the top.


Top 10 CO2-emitting countries in the world (Total CO2 in Mt) - EU JRC 2020

China — 11680.42
United States — 4535.30
India — 2411.73
Russia — 1674.23
Japan — 1061.77
Iran — 690.24
Germany — 636.88
South Korea — 621.47
Saudi Arabia — 588.81
Indonesia — 568.27

Missing the point. Those are production based figures not consumption based ones. Most of that CO2 is used to produce goods bought by the developed world. You can cut Chinas population in half, they’ll still produce the same amount of goods for the west, using the same energy, so no decrease in emissions.

[Ymx]

Those are aggregate figures I believe.

Where are the stats of industry used energy vs personal used energy for say India or China?

Do India and China not use the goods they industrially produce themselves? Interesting.

[Biffer]

Those are aggregate figures I believe.

Where are the stats of industry used energy vs personal used energy for say India or China?

Do India and China not use the goods they industrially produce themselves? Interesting.

Not to the extent that the developed world does. We’ve got to get away from the production based methodology as it’s pointless.

[Ymx]

Those are aggregate figures I believe.

Where are the stats of industry used energy vs personal used energy for say India or China?

Do India and China not use the goods they industrially produce themselves? Interesting.

Not to the extent that the developed world does. We’ve got to get away from the production based methodology as it’s pointless.

Numbers please. Come on man you’re a scientist aren’t you?