Pieter Steph du Toit Appreciation

[OomStruisbaai]

Is there a better player then him? Coming from Malmesbury, went to Swartland but he has the blood of one of the strongest TH ever to wear a Bok jersey. Piet Spiere du Toit his Oupa.

[Uncle fester]

Typical saffer bosh monkey but they had to play him in the backrow because he packed the necessary toughness for lock.

[Chilli2]

Greatest player ever.

[Sandstorm]

Greatest player ever.

Best blindside ever. However McAwe had a bigger impact on Rugby than anyone else.

[Gumboot]

Greatest player ever.

In any sport.

[_Os_]

Oom you didn't post THE VIDEO. Posting in red because I'm marking this awful effort "must try harder D-".

[OomStruisbaai]

Today he show some great ball skills. Thought he dropped the ball.

[boere wors]

Absolutely outstanding athlete. Especially considering his height. Probably the best I have seen. Always been a big Juan Smith fan, but I think PSdT has passed him.

[Chilli2]

Absolutely outstanding athlete. Especially considering his height. Probably the best I have seen. Always been a big Juan Smith fan, but I think PSdT has passed him.

I think that he is [and has been for a few years] better than Andre Venter and Juan Smith.

[Sards]

Today he show some great ball skills. Thought he dropped the ball.

How did he keep that ball in his hands. That was magical

[Uncle fester]

Absolutely outstanding athlete. Especially considering his height. Probably the best I have seen. Always been a big Juan Smith fan, but I think PSdT has passed him.

I think that he is [and has been for a few years] better than Andre Venter and Juan Smith.

Think the passage of time has dimmed folks memories on how good Venter was.

[Chilli2]

Absolutely outstanding athlete. Especially considering his height. Probably the best I have seen. Always been a big Juan Smith fan, but I think PSdT has passed him.

I think that he is [and has been for a few years] better than Andre Venter and Juan Smith.

Think the passage of time has dimmed folks memories on how good Venter was.

You might be right.

Schafted by Nick Mallet.

[Blake]

Absolutely outstanding athlete. Especially considering his height. Probably the best I have seen. Always been a big Juan Smith fan, but I think PSdT has passed him.

I think that he is [and has been for a few years] better than Andre Venter and Juan Smith.

Think the passage of time has dimmed folks memories on how good Venter was.

While recency bias is definitely a thing, I think in the case of Etzebeth and PSdT we are currently blessed with 2 all time greats playing for the Boks.

I think PSdT has surpassed both Venter and Smith as the best Bok blindside ever. His consistency is what does it for me. MoTM in both World Cup finals, 3 MoTM awards in the TRC, and in the one match we lost he wasn't playing. He just always delivers in the big matches.

Same with Etzebeth who has, in my option, surpassed Matfield, Bakkies and any other lock we've ever produced. He is has the rugby IQ and athleticism of Matfield, and the strength and hard edge Bakkies had, without the poor discipline and dirty play. No other lock comes close IMO. Some old school fans will wax lyrical about Frik du Preez who was a great player for his time, but he would've been a flank in today's modern game, not a lock.

[OomStruisbaai]

I think that he is [and has been for a few years] better than Andre Venter and Juan Smith.

Think the passage of time has dimmed folks memories on how good Venter was.

While recency bias is definitely a thing, I think in the case of Etzebeth and PSdT we are currently blessed with 2 all time greats playing for the Boks.

I think PSdT has surpassed both Venter and Smith as the best Bok blindside ever. His consistency is what does it for me. MoTM in both World Cup finals, 3 MoTM awards in the TRC, and in the one match we lost he wasn't playing. He just always delivers in the big matches.

Same with Etzebeth who has, in my option, surpassed Matfield, Bakkies and any other lock we've ever produced. He is has the rugby IQ and athleticism of Matfield, and the strength and hard edge Bakkies had, without the poor discipline and dirty play. No other lock comes close IMO. Some old school fans will wax lyrical about Frik du Preez who was a great player for his time, but he would've been a flank in today's modern game, not a lock.

You had your discipline worries about Eben but you are 100% right. Rassie has been working hard on this. Comparing PSdT with the likes of Juan Smith and Andre Venter. PSdT has been a real workhorse but his work in the backline has been superb, fielding high kicks and distributing. He is better then our actual midfielders , Kriel and Ellendig in that regard.

[inactionman]

We're talking about the genius who fell for a Ben Youngs dummy?

Joking aside, he's looked very, very good for a number of years now and rarely puts in a poor performance. .

[OomStruisbaai]

The biggest difference between the two Pumas tests = PSdT. The Springboks isnt the same without him.

[LoveOfTheGame]

I think that he is [and has been for a few years] better than Andre Venter and Juan Smith.

Think the passage of time has dimmed folks memories on how good Venter was.

While recency bias is definitely a thing, I think in the case of Etzebeth and PSdT we are currently blessed with 2 all time greats playing for the Boks.

I think PSdT has surpassed both Venter and Smith as the best Bok blindside ever. His consistency is what does it for me. MoTM in both World Cup finals, 3 MoTM awards in the TRC, and in the one match we lost he wasn't playing. He just always delivers in the big matches.

Same with Etzebeth who has, in my option, surpassed Matfield, Bakkies and any other lock we've ever produced. He is has the rugby IQ and athleticism of Matfield, and the strength and hard edge Bakkies had, without the poor discipline and dirty play. No other lock comes close IMO. Some old school fans will wax lyrical about Frik du Preez who was a great player for his time, but he would've been a flank in today's modern game, not a lock.

Agree with all of that. One small point of correction Blake, Vermeulen was MOTM in 2019 RWC final.

[Blake]

Agree with all of that. One small point of correction Blake, Vermeulen was MOTM in 2019 RWC final.

Really? I didn't know that. Duane had a great game for sure, but PSdT would've been in contention IMO.
He was blitzing Farrel all game (like he did with Jordie Barrett in the 2023 final) and also gave the final pass for the Cheslin try that sealed it.

I just assumed he got MOTM because he won World Player of the Year the following night, but I suppose that was due to the other matches and his consistency that year.

[average joe]

To think he nearly lost his leg not too long ago and is running around with his father's old hamstring tendon. Amazing player.

[Slick]

I think that he is [and has been for a few years] better than Andre Venter and Juan Smith.

Think the passage of time has dimmed folks memories on how good Venter was.

While recency bias is definitely a thing, I think in the case of Etzebeth and PSdT we are currently blessed with 2 all time greats playing for the Boks.

I think PSdT has surpassed both Venter and Smith as the best Bok blindside ever. His consistency is what does it for me. MoTM in both World Cup finals, 3 MoTM awards in the TRC, and in the one match we lost he wasn't playing. He just always delivers in the big matches.

Same with Etzebeth who has, in my option, surpassed Matfield, Bakkies and any other lock we've ever produced. He is has the rugby IQ and athleticism of Matfield, and the strength and hard edge Bakkies had, without the poor discipline and dirty play. No other lock comes close IMO. Some old school fans will wax lyrical about Frik du Preez who was a great player for his time, but he would've been a flank in today's modern game, not a lock.

PSdT is undoubtedly a great player, but I'm not sure he quite at the top of the all time greats list.

Etzebeth however is probably my top lock of all time in any team.

[Tichtheid]

Think the passage of time has dimmed folks memories on how good Venter was.

While recency bias is definitely a thing, I think in the case of Etzebeth and PSdT we are currently blessed with 2 all time greats playing for the Boks.

I think PSdT has surpassed both Venter and Smith as the best Bok blindside ever. His consistency is what does it for me. MoTM in both World Cup finals, 3 MoTM awards in the TRC, and in the one match we lost he wasn't playing. He just always delivers in the big matches.

Same with Etzebeth who has, in my option, surpassed Matfield, Bakkies and any other lock we've ever produced. He is has the rugby IQ and athleticism of Matfield, and the strength and hard edge Bakkies had, without the poor discipline and dirty play. No other lock comes close IMO. Some old school fans will wax lyrical about Frik du Preez who was a great player for his time, but he would've been a flank in today's modern game, not a lock.

PSdT is undoubtedly a great player, but I'm not sure he quite at the top of the all time greats list.

Etzebeth however is probably my top lock of all time in any team.

I think Etzebeth is a terrific player, but I'd choose several in front of him/equal to him - John Eales, Paul O'Connell, Abdel Benazzi, Fabien Pelous, Martin Johnson, Ian Jones, Brodie Retallick, Brad Thorn is woefully underrated imo.
I saw all of them play at their peak, I saw Colin Meades but I don't really remember him as I was too young - he's often in All Time Great XVs.

[Slick]

While recency bias is definitely a thing, I think in the case of Etzebeth and PSdT we are currently blessed with 2 all time greats playing for the Boks.

I think PSdT has surpassed both Venter and Smith as the best Bok blindside ever. His consistency is what does it for me. MoTM in both World Cup finals, 3 MoTM awards in the TRC, and in the one match we lost he wasn't playing. He just always delivers in the big matches.

Same with Etzebeth who has, in my option, surpassed Matfield, Bakkies and any other lock we've ever produced. He is has the rugby IQ and athleticism of Matfield, and the strength and hard edge Bakkies had, without the poor discipline and dirty play. No other lock comes close IMO. Some old school fans will wax lyrical about Frik du Preez who was a great player for his time, but he would've been a flank in today's modern game, not a lock.

PSdT is undoubtedly a great player, but I'm not sure he quite at the top of the all time greats list.

Etzebeth however is probably my top lock of all time in any team.

I think Etzebeth is a terrific player, but I'd choose several in front of him/equal to him - John Eales, Paul O'Connell, Abdel Benazzi, Fabien Pelous, Martin Johnson, Ian Jones, Brodie Retallick, Brad Thorn is woefully underrated imo.
I saw all of them play at their peak, I saw Colin Meades but I don't really remember him as I was too young - he's often in All Time Great XVs.

All of those, maybe not Thorn, are on my list. But I just think Etzebeth is marginally on top. What sealed it was watching him in a URC game last year when he just gave it everything and was so utterly influential in attack, defence and set pieces in a game that really didn't matter. Just relentlessly good.

[Sandstorm]

John Eales, Ian Jones, Brodie Retallick - great on attack and with ball in hand

Brad Thorn, Abdel Benazzi, Fabien Pelous - superb defensively

Paul O'Connell, Martin Johnson - utter menaces at lineout and maul time, constantly getting in the oppos faces

Etsebeth can stand shoulder-to- shoulder with those above in all 3 categories and that makes him the GOAT for me.

[Tichtheid]

John Eales, Ian Jones, Brodie Retallick - great on attack and with ball in hand

Brad Thorn, Abdel Benazzi, Fabien Pelous - superb defensively

Paul O'Connell, Martin Johnson - utter menaces at lineout and maul time, constantly getting in the oppos faces

Etsebeth can stand shoulder-to- shoulder with those above in all 3 categories and that makes him the GOAT for me.

Jonno had this thing about him, it wasn't so much a refusal to take take a step backwards or to accept defeat, it was that he just didn't seem to understand those concepts, aye he was a hard bastard but it was much much more than that, he inspired everyone around him to step up their game.
There was a piece by Eddie Butler in which he described Jonno as having an opposition player under each arm in a headlock and marching them through the middle of a ruck, all the while looking over his shoulder at the ref, shouting that he should be given a penalty - which was duly rewarded.

There were several times where you could see O'Connell decide that enough was enough and his team were going to turn this around and win, which they did.

I'm not saying Etzebeth doesn't have those qualities, just that I haven't witnessed them as often as I did with MJ and POC - Etzebeth's been playing in the best team in the world for some time, certainly in the best pack, so maybe he hasn't had to dig to those depths

[Tichtheid]

PSdT is undoubtedly a great player, but I'm not sure he quite at the top of the all time greats list.

Etzebeth however is probably my top lock of all time in any team.

I think Etzebeth is a terrific player, but I'd choose several in front of him/equal to him - John Eales, Paul O'Connell, Abdel Benazzi, Fabien Pelous, Martin Johnson, Ian Jones, Brodie Retallick, Brad Thorn is woefully underrated imo.
I saw all of them play at their peak, I saw Colin Meades but I don't really remember him as I was too young - he's often in All Time Great XVs.

All of those, maybe not Thorn, are on my list. But I just think Etzebeth is marginally on top. What sealed it was watching him in a URC game last year when he just gave it everything and was so utterly influential in attack, defence and set pieces in a game that really didn't matter. Just relentlessly good.

On the subject of Thorn, when he came over to Europe Leinster became a better side, the way he hit rucks was phenomenal - going back to the subject of this thread, for me that action, hitting and clearing rucks, is imho, why PSdT is not head and shoulders above the likes of Kaino, Dusautoir or Richard Hill

These are fun subjects - the GOATS, but they aren't to be taken too seriously and everyone has their favourites

[OomStruisbaai]

On the subject of Thorn, when he came over to Europe Leinster became a better side, the way he hit rucks was phenomenal - going back to the subject of this thread, for me that action, hitting and clearing rucks, is imho, why PSdT is not head and shoulders above the likes of Kaino, Dusautoir or Richard Hill

These are fun subjects - the GOATS, but they aren't to be taken too seriously and everyone has their favourites

Maybe PSdT is a SA 7. Not playing like a 6 to the ball.

[OomStruisbaai]

Congrats to my man, Player of the year , second time.

[boere wors]

Imho deserved winner over cheslin and eben. He was outstanding this season in every game.

[JM2K6]

I think Juan Smith did more with less, but PSdT is clearly one of the best SA has produced.

I don't think he was as good this season as when he first won it. Etzebeth for me.

[Yeeb]

No coincidence that sharks have been shit since he left

[OomStruisbaai]

Ja, Sards still dont rate him for that.

[Yeeb]

Ja, Sards still dont rate him for that.

He probably got some angry ink done to remind him , probably a Lego man eating an apple or something else scrawled by a blind 7 year old

[assfly]

The best 7 to ever wear the jersey?

[OomStruisbaai]

The best 7 to ever wear the jersey?

You have to add SA 7 but 6 elsewhere to compare.

How many players got the player of the season twice?

[JM2K6]

The best 7 to ever wear the jersey?

You have to add SA 7 but 6 elsewhere to compare.

How many players got the player of the season twice?

A few. McCaw won it 4 times. Carter 3. Barrett 2.

[Uncle fester]

I'm disappointed Stephen Archer didn't get the nod here.

[_Os_]

Gave up on this award sometime ago. McCaw definitely wasn't the best player in 2009, Du Preez was the obvious pick, at the time even Kiwis were saying that including their more one eyed supporters (Sader fans). Pocock was the best player in 2010 or 2011 (take your pick), didn't win. Gave up on it after that. Since then I've decided rugby is just a hard sport to pick a best player, obvious bias towards players who hold the ball and players in winning sides too (other than 2009 when the ABs lost x3 to the Boks and x1 to a Bok stuffed Baabaa side). The nominations down the years tell more of the story, but can't give everyone a prize, so all time greats end up not winning it.

Coach of the year became a bit silly when they stopped picking the world cup winning coach in the world cup year (2015 and 2023). It's come out that Nick Mallett quit the panel when that happened in 2023 and wasn't happy with 2015 either.

Team of the year was the one really solid award, test rugby is the pinnacle and there's usually not many sides at the top of that. Usually not hard picking a side. Other than the one year they picked the NZ womens side (should be a separate category), all those winners look like the best that year. Hard to make odd political picks with that one though, so they got rid of it.

The dream team they've added is amusing. 1 Bok player in the season the Boks won the world cup, 4 ABs who were also in the final, team stacked with quarterfinalists (French and Irish). Well I laughed. Smit quit the player of the year panel after 2023, because Etzebeth was the only Bok nominated and only one in the dream team.

For me the best back the last two years has been Kolbe and the best forward has been Etzebeth. As our wise Oom posted days back, SA rugby awards have more validity.

[Sandstorm]

The dream team they've added is amusing. 1 Bok player in the season the Boks won the world cup, 4 ABs who were also in the final, team stacked with quarterfinalists (French and Irish). Well I laughed. Smit quit the player of the year panel after 2023, because Etzebeth was the only Bok nominated and only one in the dream team.

These two Teams were both at the top of their game leading into the RWC (they were going to brush everyone aside remember) so a choke in the 1/4 finals shouldn't take anything away from their best players.

[_Os_]

The dream team they've added is amusing. 1 Bok player in the season the Boks won the world cup, 4 ABs who were also in the final, team stacked with quarterfinalists (French and Irish). Well I laughed. Smit quit the player of the year panel after 2023, because Etzebeth was the only Bok nominated and only one in the dream team.

These two Teams were both at the top of their game leading into the RWC (they were going to brush everyone aside remember) so a choke in the 1/4 finals shouldn't take anything away from their best players.

The 2023 awards were clearly very political. The powers that be weren't fans of the Boks after the Lions tour. There was little outrage from our fanbase because it just confirmed a lot of the general view, it was a hilarious vindication of our paranoia.

Going on past Bok form (2004-2007 cycle and the 2020-2023 cycle), 2025-2027 will probably be something like 2 good/excellent seasons and 1 average-ish/bad. The game now is how long they can dodge giving Rassie coach of the year again.

[OomStruisbaai]

France still hurting

https://www.planetrugby.com/news/bitter ... -injustice

Is Danti a 10 year old?

France centre Jonathan Danty is still bitter about their Rugby World Cup exit to the Springboks and has refused to forgive Pieter-Steph du Toit for a perceived ‘injustice’.

Les Bleus’ powerhouse remains angry after believing that the flanker should have been sanctioned for a clearout that connected with his head in the quarter-final over a year ago

Danty stayed on the field and played the entirety of the 80 minutes, but he felt that it was enough of an infringement to warrant a TMO intervention.

That duly never came and it was the Springboks who went on to claim a tense 29-28 triumph in the last-eight on their way to a fourth world title.

A repeat of 2022 clash
Coincidently, 12 months prior to that incident, Du Toit was sent off for another clearout on Danty during a 2022 November international which forced the France centre to leave the field.

According to Danty, the flanker apologised for that illegality, but the La Rochelle star is still seething for what was, in his view, the same type of hit at the World Cup.

“He had sent me a message to apologise [for the first one]. But the second time, I found it quite surprising that it was a fairly similar action,” he told Midi Olympique.

“I’m looking to steal the ball at the breakdown, but stealing the ball a metre from the ruck… it can be a bit complicated. But that’s how it is

Grudge to remain
They say time is a healer but not for Danty, who insists that he will bear a grudge towards Du Toit and would refuse to go for a beer with the two-time World Rugby Player of the Year if offered a chance to clear the air.

“I recently saw on social media that Eben Etzebeth had reposted a video of his goalkeeper save saying that the ball went backwards,” he added.