So, coronavirus...

[salanya]

Would you fúck off with this agenda-driven shit?
For people working in sectors that are directly impacted by the hospital numbers, this has been the most fúcking awful years of our lives and we will be the ones who have to clean up the mess left by twats pushing their own twisted brand of "science".

Hear hear.

Let's hope Omicron is milder than the previous variants. But you still want to prevent spreading it in case you make others ill, and it can still make people poorly, whether just for a day or several weeks.
Meaning having to isolate and being off work.
Bit of a pain when you stack shelves or work in IT, but with serious consequences for oncologists, obstetricians but also firemen etc.
That's the concern for the wider society, and why measures need considering.

This pandemic is really showing people's true colours, and a general lack of empathy (anti-vaxxers, politicians and/or those with their own specific agenda without considering others).

There's a concern for wider society? There is a concern for the elderly and unvaxxed. I don't think there is any concern for the u30s and minor's. A minor after thought for the UK government and UK media.

I agree that this government is awful for the younger generations. But I think you may be missing my point.

If this was a similar variant to Delta in how quickly it spreads and the severity of the virus, then I'd agree we'd have to weigh more on the vaccines and the public health measures whilst keeping society going as much as possible.

But as this Omicron variant seems to spread like wildfire, it's causing issues for the whole of society. With the amount of people catching it, it means they can't take part in society for 10+ days (assuming they don't get a worse illness). This means nurses and GPs, but also bus/train drivers, teachers, police/fire response etc. are all out of action. At some point this means services get overstretched and will have to be limited, which will be affecting everyone, not just the elderly/vulnerable.
So even if hopefully casualties won't increase, it will complicate life for society and all generations.

I'm not necessarily a fan of another lockdown, and it's hard to judge without having all the data (and I'm no specialist), but if things continue like they have over the last week, then we will be cutting down the services on which society relies, which basically will still mean a lockdown.

What I feel strongly about is this vague guidance of not socialising too much, without making the advice specific and setting up the support measures for affected businesses and organisations. It'd be mad to support them for the last 18 months, and then watching them drown in sight of the harbour.
And then come Spring they'll complain that the economy is struggling. It's especially annoying as this is exactly what happened in their avoidance of the first lockdown in March 2020 (vague guidance but not making a firm decision for businesses). But as Rishi has decided he doesn't want to spend anymore they just ignore it. And Boris doesn't have the backbenches anymore, so he's even more of a lame duck than before.

[Sandstorm]

Moderna booster seems to be “very effective “ against Omicron.

No shit, it almost killed me!!!

[Ymx]

Moderna booster seems to be “very effective “ against Omicron.

No shit, it almost killed me!!!

Well, I think I’m inadvertently trying both bastards at once. Still here. Just a running nose so far, and perhaps insomnia??

[Calculon]

But as this Omicron variant seems to spread like wildfire, it's causing issues for the whole of society. With the amount of people catching it, it means they can't take part in society for 10+ days (assuming they don't get a worse illness). This means nurses and GPs, but also bus/train drivers, teachers, police/fire response etc. are all out of action. At some point this means services get overstretched and will have to be limited, which will be affecting everyone, not just the elderly/vulnerable.
So even if hopefully casualties won't increase, it will complicate life for society and all generations.

I'm not necessarily a fan of another lockdown, and it's hard to judge without having all the data (and I'm no specialist), but if things continue like they have over the last week, then we will be cutting down the services on which society relies, which basically will still mean a lockdown.

Maybe your government need to relax the self isolation requirements then.

[petej]

But as this Omicron variant seems to spread like wildfire, it's causing issues for the whole of society. With the amount of people catching it, it means they can't take part in society for 10+ days (assuming they don't get a worse illness). This means nurses and GPs, but also bus/train drivers, teachers, police/fire response etc. are all out of action. At some point this means services get overstretched and will have to be limited, which will be affecting everyone, not just the elderly/vulnerable.
So even if hopefully casualties won't increase, it will complicate life for society and all generations.

I'm not necessarily a fan of another lockdown, and it's hard to judge without having all the data (and I'm no specialist), but if things continue like they have over the last week, then we will be cutting down the services on which society relies, which basically will still mean a lockdown.

Maybe your government need to relax the self isolation requirements then.

Or just avoid testing yourself. Which is what I suspect many are doing.

[Calculon]

Yeah, that's what's happening here too

[Paddington Bear]

Lockdowns were a tool for a very specific issue - viral pandemic with no effective remedy. We have one now - vaccination - that seems to be stopping critical levels of death. Lockdowns aren't a standard tool and have catastrophic side effects. No more of them please.

[salanya]

But as this Omicron variant seems to spread like wildfire, it's causing issues for the whole of society. With the amount of people catching it, it means they can't take part in society for 10+ days (assuming they don't get a worse illness). This means nurses and GPs, but also bus/train drivers, teachers, police/fire response etc. are all out of action. At some point this means services get overstretched and will have to be limited, which will be affecting everyone, not just the elderly/vulnerable.
So even if hopefully casualties won't increase, it will complicate life for society and all generations.

I'm not necessarily a fan of another lockdown, and it's hard to judge without having all the data (and I'm no specialist), but if things continue like they have over the last week, then we will be cutting down the services on which society relies, which basically will still mean a lockdown.

Maybe your government need to relax the self isolation requirements then.

Or let's pretend there is no virus at all, that'll improve things...

[Biffer]

But as this Omicron variant seems to spread like wildfire, it's causing issues for the whole of society. With the amount of people catching it, it means they can't take part in society for 10+ days (assuming they don't get a worse illness). This means nurses and GPs, but also bus/train drivers, teachers, police/fire response etc. are all out of action. At some point this means services get overstretched and will have to be limited, which will be affecting everyone, not just the elderly/vulnerable.
So even if hopefully casualties won't increase, it will complicate life for society and all generations.

I'm not necessarily a fan of another lockdown, and it's hard to judge without having all the data (and I'm no specialist), but if things continue like they have over the last week, then we will be cutting down the services on which society relies, which basically will still mean a lockdown.

Maybe your government need to relax the self isolation requirements then.

Or just avoid testing yourself. Which is what I suspect many are doing.

I can't understand that. If you're going to see family, particularly parents or grandparents, why would you risk assing it on to them.

[Paddington Bear]

Maybe your government need to relax the self isolation requirements then.

Or just avoid testing yourself. Which is what I suspect many are doing.

I can't understand that. If you're going to see family, particularly parents or grandparents, why would you risk assing it on to them.

I think it is more applicable to people who are in groups where no one is at high risk. My pre-Christmas socials have only included those of us whose Grandparents are dead.

[dpedin]

Maybe your government need to relax the self isolation requirements then.

Or just avoid testing yourself. Which is what I suspect many are doing.

I can't understand that. If you're going to see family, particularly parents or grandparents, why would you risk assing it on to them.

Mate just confirmed positive - was golfing and eating/drinking in London last week. Luckily he has been vaxxed x 3 so should be ok. Now self isolating and Xmas is cancelled for him. Was one of those who didn't really believe in masks and didn't avoid poorly ventilated places etc .. now regretting it. His poor wife is now trying to persuade him that she cant share same room as him, even if 2 metres apart, he needs to isolate and she doesn't want to catch it! He is not a happy bunny.

[dpedin]

Hearing that numbers of covid cases will level off soon ... because we are running out of testing capacity! Also significant numbers of lab staff off work due to omicron. We will soon be flying blind. Perhaps this is what the Blonde Bumblecunt is waiting for and will use levelling off of case numbers to justify not bringing in further restrictions? I am only partially joking here, I honestly wouldn't put it past them.

[Calculon]

But as this Omicron variant seems to spread like wildfire, it's causing issues for the whole of society. With the amount of people catching it, it means they can't take part in society for 10+ days (assuming they don't get a worse illness). This means nurses and GPs, but also bus/train drivers, teachers, police/fire response etc. are all out of action. At some point this means services get overstretched and will have to be limited, which will be affecting everyone, not just the elderly/vulnerable.
So even if hopefully casualties won't increase, it will complicate life for society and all generations.

I'm not necessarily a fan of another lockdown, and it's hard to judge without having all the data (and I'm no specialist), but if things continue like they have over the last week, then we will be cutting down the services on which society relies, which basically will still mean a lockdown.

Maybe your government need to relax the self isolation requirements then.

Or let's pretend there is no virus at all, that'll improve things...

I'm a visionary

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6f18 ... a4767d84a0

[salanya]

Calculon:
It was always a likely step, though it's reduced rather than cancelled - bit of a difference.
But if you're Covid negative and science agrees that you are not going to pass any lurgy on after 7 days then it works for me.

Lots of news coming in of services being cancelled, whether NHS, public transport etc. That seems to be the biggest issue this wave.

I genuinely hope omicron is less severe than delta - any scientifically proven news on this yet?

[dpedin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-59730888

Immensa scandal gets worse and worse! Definitely not going away!

[Biffer]

Calculon:
It was always a likely step, though it's reduced rather than cancelled - bit of a difference.
But if you're Covid negative and science agrees that you are not going to pass any lurgy on after 7 days then it works for me.

Lots of news coming in of services being cancelled, whether NHS, public transport etc. That seems to be the biggest issue this wave.

I genuinely hope omicron is less severe than delta - any scientifically proven news on this yet?

There's some encouraging studies which suggest Omicron might replicate far better than previous variants in the bronchus (tubes leading into the lungs) and not nearly as well as previous in the lungs. This would explain faster replication and transmission, less severity, shorter illness. But these are very early, small scale, conducted in vitro not in vivo and use pseudo viruses. So shouldn't be shouted about as 'WAAAH HERE'S PROOF LETS STOP DOING ANYTHING TO PREVENT IT'

[petej]

Calculon:
It was always a likely step, though it's reduced rather than cancelled - bit of a difference.
But if you're Covid negative and science agrees that you are not going to pass any lurgy on after 7 days then it works for me.

Lots of news coming in of services being cancelled, whether NHS, public transport etc. That seems to be the biggest issue this wave.

I genuinely hope omicron is less severe than delta - any scientifically proven news on this yet?

Denmark. Who have superb testing and surveillance. Hospitalisations rate for omicron 0.6% and for other variants 1.5%.

[Torquemada 1420]

I do hope all the fatties who ask for lockdowns etc are equally as determined to lose their excess weight that puts them at risk not only for Covid, but many other problems that block up hospital beds.

You seem obsessed with overweight people. Why ignore smokers, alcoholics, drug users? Or the elderly, who all take up a lot of health services too.

None of these are easy to fix, so perhaps we'll concentrate on the issue of the global pandemic first?

Because being elderly is an election?

Alcoholics and drug users are a rounding error in terms of resource drain on the NHS. Drug users, in particular, are a huge and disproportionate cause of crime though.

Smokers. Yeah. You can reasonably level the same accusation with one exception: smoking is generally regarded as an addition. Shovelling pies down one's gullet is not.

[petej]

I do hope all the fatties who ask for lockdowns etc are equally as determined to lose their excess weight that puts them at risk not only for Covid, but many other problems that block up hospital beds.

You seem obsessed with overweight people. Why ignore smokers, alcoholics, drug users? Or the elderly, who all take up a lot of health services too.

None of these are easy to fix, so perhaps we'll concentrate on the issue of the global pandemic first?

Because being elderly is an election?

Alcoholics and drug users are a rounding error in terms of resource drain on the NHS. Drug users, in particular, are a huge and disproportionate cause of crime.

Smokers. Yeah. You can reasonably level the same accusation with one exception: smoking is generally regarded as an addition. Shovelling pies down one's gullet is not.

While I'm not inclined to be over sympathetic about being grossly overweight the role of the food industry and the impact of heavily/ultra processed foods and the way that interacts with our brains makes these foods very addictive.

[Calculon]

Calculon:
It was always a likely step, though it's reduced rather than cancelled - bit of a difference.
But if you're Covid negative and science agrees that you are not going to pass any lurgy on after 7 days then it works for me.

Lots of news coming in of services being cancelled, whether NHS, public transport etc. That seems to be the biggest issue this wave.

I genuinely hope omicron is less severe than delta - any scientifically proven news on this yet?

Yes, mounting evidence in terms of clinical impact. Low rates of hospitalisation thus far in UK and Denmark compliments the South African experience. So we are seeing a further “decoupling” of cases to deaths. Intrinsic severity of the variant is less easy to “prove” but there has been a couple of studies that I know of that has suggested lower infectivity of lung cells.

Here is one of them for some light bedtime reading

https://www.citiid.cam.ac.uk/wp-content ... -PAPER.pdf


With a variant this transmissible a lock down will only delay the spread, so unless the NHS is genuinely about to collapse I don’t think it would be that helpful.

[Torquemada 1420]

You seem obsessed with overweight people. Why ignore smokers, alcoholics, drug users? Or the elderly, who all take up a lot of health services too.

None of these are easy to fix, so perhaps we'll concentrate on the issue of the global pandemic first?

Because being elderly is an election?

Alcoholics and drug users are a rounding error in terms of resource drain on the NHS. Drug users, in particular, are a huge and disproportionate cause of crime.

Smokers. Yeah. You can reasonably level the same accusation with one exception: smoking is generally regarded as an addition. Shovelling pies down one's gullet is not.

While I'm not inclined to be over sympathetic about being grossly overweight the role of the food industry and the impact of heavily/ultra processed foods and the way that interacts with our brains makes these foods very addictive.

Not going to get into this debate here: it's a separate thing from the thread. But a starting point would be to define addiction and then attempt to have a measure for it.

FWIW, people have a CHOICE
1) Buy good value, healthy food stuffs. Make your own meals and eat sensible portions.
2) Buy overly priced junk food which is ready made and/or delivered and eat it in excess quantities.

The latter CHOICE is a combination of stupidity, laziness and greed. Hey. Darwinian evolution. Survival is not mandatory. You want to eat yourself to death, you are probably doing the rest of us (and the planet) a favour eventually by removing yourself from the gene pool. My objection is to the rest of us subsidising to help extend that period of existence before self-selecting removal.

[Lobby]

Calculon:
It was always a likely step, though it's reduced rather than cancelled - bit of a difference.
But if you're Covid negative and science agrees that you are not going to pass any lurgy on after 7 days then it works for me.

Lots of news coming in of services being cancelled, whether NHS, public transport etc. That seems to be the biggest issue this wave.

I genuinely hope omicron is less severe than delta - any scientifically proven news on this yet?

Yes, mounting evidence in terms of clinical impact. Low rates of hospitalisation thus far in UK and Denmark compliments the South African experience. So we are seeing a further “decoupling” of cases to deaths. Intrinsic severity of the variant is less easy to “prove” but there has been a couple of studies that I know of that has suggested lower infectivity of lung cells.

Here is one of them for some light bedtime reading

https://www.citiid.cam.ac.uk/wp-content ... -PAPER.pdf


With a variant this transmissible a lock down will only delay the spread, so unless the NHS is genuinely about to collapse I don’t think it would be that helpful.

The NHS is already being stretched in London (where 30% of people remain unvaxxed). Hospitalisations are rising in London, and there are large numbers of staff absences because of people having to isolate, so there are good arguments in favour of some more mitigating action in London to try and reduce and delay the spread of Omicron here.

The rest of the Country has a much better record on vaccinations, so additional restrictions may be less necessary outside London.

[petej]

Because being elderly is an election?

Alcoholics and drug users are a rounding error in terms of resource drain on the NHS. Drug users, in particular, are a huge and disproportionate cause of crime.

Smokers. Yeah. You can reasonably level the same accusation with one exception: smoking is generally regarded as an addition. Shovelling pies down one's gullet is not.

While I'm not inclined to be over sympathetic about being grossly overweight the role of the food industry and the impact of heavily/ultra processed foods and the way that interacts with our brains makes these foods very addictive.

Not going to get into this debate here: it's a separate thing from the thread. But a starting point would be to define addiction and then attempt to have a measure for it.

FWIW, people have a CHOICE
1) Buy good value, healthy food stuffs. Make your own meals and eat sensible portions.
2) Buy overly priced junk food which is ready made and/or delivered and eat it in excess quantities.

The latter CHOICE is a combination of stupidity, laziness and greed. Hey. Darwinian evolution. Survival is not mandatory. You want to eat yourself to death, you are probably doing the rest of us (and the planet) a favour eventually by removing yourself from the gene pool. My objection is to the rest of us subsidising to help extend that period of existence before self-selecting removal.

I would put in on par with smoking as an addiction. Then we might see heavily processed foods being hit with similar labelling and restrictions which should happen and the companies being seen as the pariahs they are.

[Lemoentjie]

Well, smokers probably come close to covering the cost of their treatment from the duties on cigarettes. Obese people and drug users less so.

I don't think anyone who is an unhealthy weight should be allowed to call for a lockdown or mandatory vaccination unless they are really trying to lose weight and adopt a healthy lifestyle.

Lastly, make unvaccinated people pay for the cost of their treatment from Covid-19. In my opinion, not being vaccinated is like a refusal of first-line treatment.

[tc27]

Uk cases around 90k per day but the good news is it does look like its peaking at this level (time will tell).

[petej]

Uk cases around 90k per day but the good news is it does look like its peaking at this level (time will tell).

London cases on a downward trajectory. Rest of the country probably still due to increase for a few days. Don't need new rules as people will mostly behave and be sensible.

[GogLais]

Uk cases around 90k per day but the good news is it does look like its peaking at this level (time will tell).

I was about to post something on the lines of cases shot up from about 40k a day to about 90k a day about a week ago. Since then they’ve bounced up and down around that level and certainly haven’t been doubling every couple of days from that new higher level.

[Ymx]

Uk cases around 90k per day but the good news is it does look like its peaking at this level (time will tell).

London cases on a downward trajectory. Rest of the country probably still due to increase for a few days. Don't need new rules as people will mostly behave and be sensible.

It’s gone shit mad here (Surrey)!

So many people I know are with it (and not from me).

Quarter of our workforce are out.

[Slick]

More importantly, the Calcutta Cup game looks in jeopardy now with the new Scottish government restrictions on crowds.

[I like neeps]

Uk cases around 90k per day but the good news is it does look like its peaking at this level (time will tell).

London cases on a downward trajectory. Rest of the country probably still due to increase for a few days. Don't need new rules as people will mostly behave and be sensible.

It’s gone shit mad here (Surrey)!

So many people I know are with it (and not from me).

Quarter of our workforce are out.

Do they count positive lateral flows rather than PCRs does anyone know? I'm finding it hard to think of a friend who currently doesn't have covid.

[dpedin]

Hospitalisations jump up 232 and deaths are up to 172, probably a bit of catching up with the numbers but not pretty?

[Ymx]

London cases on a downward trajectory. Rest of the country probably still due to increase for a few days. Don't need new rules as people will mostly behave and be sensible.

It’s gone shit mad here (Surrey)!

So many people I know are with it (and not from me).

Quarter of our workforce are out.

Do they count positive lateral flows rather than PCRs does anyone know? I'm finding it hard to think of a friend who currently doesn't have covid.

Just PCRs I’m pretty sure.

[Sandstorm]

Highest number of new cases (4 x National average) in Lambeth, S London.
Idiots.

[Slick]

Is the deal with this that if, as is happening, this strain knocks Delta out, and is proven to be much milder, we are near the end?

A lot of ifs and buts obviously

[Big D]

Is the deal with this that if, as is happening, this strain knocks Delta out, and is proven to be much milder, we are near the end?

A lot of ifs and buts obviously

Until the next variant.

[Slick]

Is the deal with this that if, as is happening, this strain knocks Delta out, and is proven to be much milder, we are near the end?

A lot of ifs and buts obviously

Until the next variant.

So how does it end? Not being facetious

[Sandstorm]

Is the deal with this that if, as is happening, this strain knocks Delta out, and is proven to be much milder, we are near the end?

A lot of ifs and buts obviously

Until the next variant.

There’s no evidence that Alpha and Beta - the strains that killed 2 million patients and thousands of medical staff is gone for good either.




Merry Christmas

[Sandstorm]

Is the deal with this that if, as is happening, this strain knocks Delta out, and is proven to be much milder, we are near the end?

A lot of ifs and buts obviously

Until the next variant.

So how does it end? Not being facetious

We get stronger than Covid through immunity and familiarity and it becomes - for real - “just another flu”

I’m hopeful that’s Summer 2022

[petej]

Until the next variant.

So how does it end? Not being facetious

We get stronger than Covid through immunity and familiarity and it becomes - for real - “just another flu”

I’m hopeful that’s Summer 2022

Kind of feel like omicron is the beginning of the end for the pandemic and the first endemic variant.

[Big D]

Until the next variant.

So how does it end? Not being facetious

We get stronger than Covid through immunity and familiarity and it becomes - for real - “just another flu”

I’m hopeful that’s Summer 2022

Wish I had your optimism. For a number of reasons this year has been shit even without covid. Further covid restrictions up here at this time of year have summed up the year perfectly.