So, coronavirus...

[mat the expat]

Well with regards to vaccines and work in the NHS, I recieved a list of all the staff in my dept that I have to discuss Vaccine as a Condition of Deployment (VCOD).
Give all the staff are patient facing and the opportunities of non patient facing activities are scarce/non existent then this is going to be challenging to say the least.

I suspect the shit is about to hot the fan actoss the NHS. I for one am not looking forward to having these discussions and will ensure I have a box of tears for the staff and a flack jacket and armour for me.

We have to supply proof of vaccination to our workplaces here to be allowed in the building.

Don't have a problem with it

[JM2K6]

Christ, just chatting to a mate and he tells me his youngest daughter caught Covid 6 weeks ago and has tested positive again today...

[Biffer]

Cases really tumbled in the last week in Scotland. Less than 3,000 positive PCR tests reported today, compared to 17,000 a fortnight ago.

[Mahoney]

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Case numbers imply we are well past the peak of this wave.

It also looks like deaths and hospital admissions are starting to follow cases albeit with the usual lag.

Not sure deaths even went up at all. Perhaps because Omicron displaced delta (and booster role out +increased immunity) deaths actually fell. There is a downward trend since the beginning November.
Screenshot_20220117-101459.png

Don't think you can make that call yet - the data on deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate is only robust up to 20th December and only even present up to 31st December. Deaths within 28 days of positive test only began to rise on 26th December. So there's every chance it just hasn't filtered through yet. Until this wave deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate have generally been marginally higher for the same date than deaths within 28 days of positive test.

[JM2K6]

Christ, just chatting to a mate and he tells me his youngest daughter caught Covid 6 weeks ago and has tested positive again today...

If it was a PCR test , it can remain positive for up to 12 weeks after infection, CDC recommends antigens test instead.

Tested negative repeatedly in-between. Looks like a genuine re-infection (presumably Delta then Omicron)

[Slick]

Cases really tumbled in the last week in Scotland. Less than 3,000 positive PCR tests reported today, compared to 17,000 a fortnight ago.

That's very good. Although, I think a lot of people are not bothering with PCR tests/ Can't get one etc. Not nearly enough to discount those figures mind.

[Biffer]

Cases really tumbled in the last week in Scotland. Less than 3,000 positive PCR tests reported today, compared to 17,000 a fortnight ago.

That's very good. Although, I think a lot of people are not bothering with PCR tests/ Can't get one etc. Not nearly enough to discount those figures mind.

They're much easier to get than they were a fortnight ago tbh. Think it's back to them being available in the next hour in Edinburgh. Scottish government now also reporting on lateral flow tests, which they hadn't been doing previously. Hospital bed occupation seems to have levelled off and ICU numbers have fallen back (qlthough they didn't go up that much)

[petej]

Cases really tumbled in the last week in Scotland. Less than 3,000 positive PCR tests reported today, compared to 17,000 a fortnight ago.

That's very good. Although, I think a lot of people are not bothering with PCR tests/ Can't get one etc. Not nearly enough to discount those figures mind.

But when the positivity is also heading downwards you definitely can't discount them. I do find the map funny today. Perhaps Devon and Cornwall should join Wales.

Screenshot_20220117-164216.png (299.19 KiB) Viewed 1046 times

[shaggy]

Cases really tumbled in the last week in Scotland. Less than 3,000 positive PCR tests reported today, compared to 17,000 a fortnight ago.

That's very good. Although, I think a lot of people are not bothering with PCR tests/ Can't get one etc. Not nearly enough to discount those figures mind.

But when the positivity is also heading downwards you definitely can't discount them. I do find the map funny today. Perhaps Devon and Cornwall should join Wales.
Screenshot_20220117-164216.png

Fuck off. You can have Cornwall as they are weird buggers but Devon stays in England!

[dpedin]

Cases really tumbled in the last week in Scotland. Less than 3,000 positive PCR tests reported today, compared to 17,000 a fortnight ago.

That's very good. Although, I think a lot of people are not bothering with PCR tests/ Can't get one etc. Not nearly enough to discount those figures mind.

But when the positivity is also heading downwards you definitely can't discount them. I do find the map funny today. Perhaps Devon and Cornwall should join Wales.
Screenshot_20220117-164216.png

Scotland reported on 16,208 new tests yesterday of which 21.3% were positive the highest rate since last Tuesday. Yesterday 27,243 tests were reported so a drop in test reported by 45%. 7 day average for positive reports was 19.4%. You have to go back over a year to find as low a number of tests reported. To me, unless this is a reporting hiccup which is a distinct possibility, it looks like there is a significant drop off in tests, and therefore cases, being reported which can't be explained completely by a drop in actual covid cases. I suspect most folk are not bothering to report on LFTs or even getting tested now? The impact of this is that number of cases is now a different measure - we are not comparing like with like now so any trend info is not worth looking at. Hospitalisations and deaths remain the key indicators.

[SaintK]

That's very good. Although, I think a lot of people are not bothering with PCR tests/ Can't get one etc. Not nearly enough to discount those figures mind.

But when the positivity is also heading downwards you definitely can't discount them. I do find the map funny today. Perhaps Devon and Cornwall should join Wales.
Screenshot_20220117-164216.png

Fuck off. You can have Cornwall as they are weird buggers but Devon stays in England!

Aren't most of them second home owners from Notting Hill and Islington?

[shaggy]

But when the positivity is also heading downwards you definitely can't discount them. I do find the map funny today. Perhaps Devon and Cornwall should join Wales.
Screenshot_20220117-164216.png

Fuck off. You can have Cornwall as they are weird buggers but Devon stays in England!

Aren't most of them second home owners from Notting Hill and Islington?

Devon is not much different, locals are priced out by Home Counties dwellers dropping 7 figure sums on properties. No, the Cornish are proper weird.

[fishfoodie]

But when the positivity is also heading downwards you definitely can't discount them. I do find the map funny today. Perhaps Devon and Cornwall should join Wales.
Screenshot_20220117-164216.png

Fuck off. You can have Cornwall as they are weird buggers but Devon stays in England!

Aren't most of them second home owners from Notting Hill and Islington?

and Rick Stein owns the rest...

[CM11]

Going to be very odd being able to have a normal conversation about covid on here!

Anyway, read this initially as a young child and was wondering about repeated tests but am I right to assume the reason for that was that she works in healthcare or some area with high exposure?

Christ, just chatting to a mate and he tells me his youngest daughter caught Covid 6 weeks ago and has tested positive again today...

If it was a PCR test , it can remain positive for up to 12 weeks after infection, CDC recommends antigens test instead.

Tested negative repeatedly in-between. Looks like a genuine re-infection (presumably Delta then Omicron)

[Ymx]

Makes sense.

6 weeks ago was 6th Dec.



So I guess 6 weeks ago it was 95% likely delta, and now it’s probably 99.9% likely omicron.

[Ymx]

But also yes I understood that …

Lat flows are positive for a short time (whilst you are infectious), and then go negative usually within 7 days.

PCR can stay positive for a couple of months.

But if both times lat flows are positive (6 weeks apart) then it’s certainly a re infection.

[CM11]

But also yes I understood that …

Lat flows are positive for a short time (whilst you are infectious), and then go negative usually within 7 days.

PCR can stay positive for a couple of months.

But if both times lat flows are positive (6 weeks apart) then it’s certainly a re infection.

PCR can stay positive but it doesn't always and I don't think it's the norm. JMK will confirm but the implication was that this person was being regularly tested with PCR and was negative in between.

[Biffer]

That's very good. Although, I think a lot of people are not bothering with PCR tests/ Can't get one etc. Not nearly enough to discount those figures mind.

But when the positivity is also heading downwards you definitely can't discount them. I do find the map funny today. Perhaps Devon and Cornwall should join Wales.
Screenshot_20220117-164216.png

Scotland reported on 16,208 new tests yesterday of which 21.3% were positive the highest rate since last Tuesday. Yesterday 27,243 tests were reported so a drop in test reported by 45%. 7 day average for positive reports was 19.4%. You have to go back over a year to find as low a number of tests reported. To me, unless this is a reporting hiccup which is a distinct possibility, it looks like there is a significant drop off in tests, and therefore cases, being reported which can't be explained completely by a drop in actual covid cases. I suspect most folk are not bothering to report on LFTs or even getting tested now? The impact of this is that number of cases is now a different measure - we are not comparing like with like now so any trend info is not worth looking at. Hospitalisations and deaths remain the key indicators.

1. There were no cases reported the previous day so its two days' figures
2. They are now reporting LFTs as well as PCRs where previously it was just PCR

[petej]

But when the positivity is also heading downwards you definitely can't discount them. I do find the map funny today. Perhaps Devon and Cornwall should join Wales.
Screenshot_20220117-164216.png

Scotland reported on 16,208 new tests yesterday of which 21.3% were positive the highest rate since last Tuesday. Yesterday 27,243 tests were reported so a drop in test reported by 45%. 7 day average for positive reports was 19.4%. You have to go back over a year to find as low a number of tests reported. To me, unless this is a reporting hiccup which is a distinct possibility, it looks like there is a significant drop off in tests, and therefore cases, being reported which can't be explained completely by a drop in actual covid cases. I suspect most folk are not bothering to report on LFTs or even getting tested now? The impact of this is that number of cases is now a different measure - we are not comparing like with like now so any trend info is not worth looking at. Hospitalisations and deaths remain the key indicators.

1. There were no cases reported the previous day so its two days' figures
2. They are now reporting LFTs as well as PCRs where previously it was just PCR

I feel quite upbeat. Cases have fallen dramatically everywhere in the uk. In Wales from 16000 to 2500 while at the same time positivity from over 50% to about 30%. Hospital admissions have peaked, looks like hospital occupancy has peaked. Even people not reporting tests or getting tested is a good thing and a sign of recovery as who the hell wants to live in country where you have to be tested constantly and show a health pass.

[JM2K6]

Going to be very odd being able to have a normal conversation about covid on here!

Anyway, read this initially as a young child and was wondering about repeated tests but am I right to assume the reason for that was that she works in healthcare or some area with high exposure?

If it was a PCR test , it can remain positive for up to 12 weeks after infection, CDC recommends antigens test instead.

Tested negative repeatedly in-between. Looks like a genuine re-infection (presumably Delta then Omicron)

Unlikely, she's about five

[CM11]

OK. First impressions right. So antigen positive initially the second time and then confirmed by PCR?

Was reading only yesterday that reinfection with Omicron 4.5 times more likely. Couldn't quite make out if they meant previous variant to Omicron or Omicron twice. Think the former.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Just arrived in Thailand for a cycling holiday. First night had a drink with a girl whose holiday was 10 days in quarantine after a positive test on arrival. That's about as shite as it gets

Glad I didn't leave home for the week before travelling.

[dpedin]

But when the positivity is also heading downwards you definitely can't discount them. I do find the map funny today. Perhaps Devon and Cornwall should join Wales.
Screenshot_20220117-164216.png

Scotland reported on 16,208 new tests yesterday of which 21.3% were positive the highest rate since last Tuesday. Yesterday 27,243 tests were reported so a drop in test reported by 45%. 7 day average for positive reports was 19.4%. You have to go back over a year to find as low a number of tests reported. To me, unless this is a reporting hiccup which is a distinct possibility, it looks like there is a significant drop off in tests, and therefore cases, being reported which can't be explained completely by a drop in actual covid cases. I suspect most folk are not bothering to report on LFTs or even getting tested now? The impact of this is that number of cases is now a different measure - we are not comparing like with like now so any trend info is not worth looking at. Hospitalisations and deaths remain the key indicators.

1. There were no cases reported the previous day so its two days' figures
2. They are now reporting LFTs as well as PCRs where previously it was just PCR

Not sure I get what you are meaning with point 1 above? I was using testing and new cases by date reported info. I know they are reporting LFTs as well as PCRs now however for me it looks like folk are not reporting their LFT outcome or even bothering to test now hence the low numbers. Testing and case numbers are now not comparable with previous data/trends due to change in testing requirements. I suspect folk have got the message that 'omicron is mild' and are ignoring symptoms and testing unless they require it to go somewhere or get into somewhere, otherwise why subject yourself to self isolation for nothing worse than a 'cold'?

[petej]

Going to be very odd being able to have a normal conversation about covid on here!

Anyway, read this initially as a young child and was wondering about repeated tests but am I right to assume the reason for that was that she works in healthcare or some area with high exposure?

Tested negative repeatedly in-between. Looks like a genuine re-infection (presumably Delta then Omicron)

Unlikely, she's about five

Child prodigy?

Zero COVID harsh on hamsters (and rabbits).
https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking ... %27s-first

[C69]

Going to be very odd being able to have a normal conversation about covid on here!

Anyway, read this initially as a young child and was wondering about repeated tests but am I right to assume the reason for that was that she works in healthcare or some area with high exposure?

Unlikely, she's about five

Child prodigy?

Zero COVID harsh on hamsters (and rabbits).
https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking ... %27s-first

Hmm and they also think Omicron may have come from mice.

[tc27]

UK unemployment back to pre Covid levels and job vacancies high. Looks like the economic scarring has being successfully minimised.



Massive intervention by the BoE so important - really shows the benefit of having those tools available in a crisis.

[tabascoboy]

RIP but hard to believe after all this time some still don't understand how serious this virus infection is

Hana Horka: Czech singer dies after catching Covid intentionally

A folk singer from the Czech Republic has died after deliberately catching Covid, her son has told the BBC. Hana Horka, 57, was unvaccinated and had posted on social media that she was recovering after testing positive, but died two days later.

Her son, Jan Rek, said she got infected on purpose when he and his father had the virus, so she could get a recovery pass to access certain venues.

The Czech Republic reported a record number of Covid-19 cases on Wednesday.

Mr Rek and his father, who are both fully vaccinated, both caught Covid over Christmas. But he said his mother had decided not to stay away from them, preferring instead to expose herself to the virus. "She should have isolated for a week because we tested positive. But she was with us the whole time," he said.

Proof of vaccination or recent infection from the virus is required in the Czech Republic to gain entry to many social and cultural venues, including cinemas, bars and cafes.

[Slick]

RIP but hard to believe after all this time some still don't understand how serious this virus infection is

Hana Horka: Czech singer dies after catching Covid intentionally

A folk singer from the Czech Republic has died after deliberately catching Covid, her son has told the BBC. Hana Horka, 57, was unvaccinated and had posted on social media that she was recovering after testing positive, but died two days later.

Her son, Jan Rek, said she got infected on purpose when he and his father had the virus, so she could get a recovery pass to access certain venues.

The Czech Republic reported a record number of Covid-19 cases on Wednesday.

Mr Rek and his father, who are both fully vaccinated, both caught Covid over Christmas. But he said his mother had decided not to stay away from them, preferring instead to expose herself to the virus. "She should have isolated for a week because we tested positive. But she was with us the whole time," he said.

Proof of vaccination or recent infection from the virus is required in the Czech Republic to gain entry to many social and cultural venues, including cinemas, bars and cafes.

Like Boris it seems. Free for all in England, woohoo!

[convoluted]

Sunbathe, occasional zinc, and wash your daily Ivermectin down with a cup of hemp protein.
And pop a Viagra if your nose gets runny.
Bulletproof.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/ne ... hp&pc=U531

[TheNatalShark]

UK unemployment back to pre Covid levels and job vacancies high. Looks like the economic scarring has being successfully minimised.



Massive intervention by the BoE so important - really shows the benefit of having those tools available in a crisis.

One day the ONS and gov will stop using such bad PAYE data for job numbers, and we can have meaningful analysis of short term policy and event effects on employment numbers.

But it's not this day.

I note the average revisions down on initial data releases since last summer has been calc'd as circa 85k.

If we took the boasting of these announcements we'd have more people employed than people living in the UK by 2025.

[petej]

ONS couldn't wait till Friday so pre-released results.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... anuary2022

Screenshot_20220119-230343.png (178.48 KiB) Viewed 2037 times

[Rinkals]

I had this sent to me today.

As discussed on the GB News channel on 19/1/22 in an interview with Professor Karol Sikora, ex WHO Head of Cancer.

The UK Office for National Statistics has stated that to date there have been 17,371 UK deaths solely from Covid.

The average age of death from Covid was
82.5 years, which is over the average UK age of death generally.

On average 700,000 people die every year in the UK

The clear implication is that the pandemic had no effect and all measures (including vaccination) were unjustified.

How do I respond? Are the figures accurate?

As I understand it, Sweden did not implement any measures to protect their population, but I haven't heard anything on whether they were justified.

I suppose I should be looking this stuff up for myself, but there is so much shit out there and I wouldn't mind getting opinions from the bored.

[Ymx]

Which ever way you slice it, the excess deaths went through the roof when covid arrived. It was completely unsustainable by leaving it fully open, the health service has drowned.

[Biffer]

I had this sent to me today.

As discussed on the GB News channel on 19/1/22 in an interview with Professor Karol Sikora, ex WHO Head of Cancer.

The UK Office for National Statistics has stated that to date there have been 17,371 UK deaths solely from Covid.

The average age of death from Covid was
82.5 years, which is over the average UK age of death generally.

On average 700,000 people die every year in the UK

The clear implication is that the pandemic had no effect and all measures (including vaccination) were unjustified.

How do I respond? Are the figures accurate?

As I understand it, Sweden did not implement any measures to protect their population, but I haven't heard anything on whether they were justified.

I suppose I should be looking this stuff up for myself, but there is so much shit out there and I wouldn't mind getting opinions from the bored.

What this kind of thing demonstrates is our society's really poor understanding of death. I think the key question to ask someone who's pushing that line is what percentage of people they think die of one thing. Deaths, particularly in the elderly very often have a primary cause and several secondary causes. That's why death certificates are laid out the way they are. So to expect there to be tens of thousands of death certificates that only mention covid is fanciful. It'll often have exacerbated existing conditions or weakened the person so that other infections present as well. Doesn't mean there death wasn't due to covid.

And that's where the excess death numbers are important. Those numbers are the best reflection of the true impact.

[petej]

I had this sent to me today.

As discussed on the GB News channel on 19/1/22 in an interview with Professor Karol Sikora, ex WHO Head of Cancer.

The UK Office for National Statistics has stated that to date there have been 17,371 UK deaths solely from Covid.

The average age of death from Covid was
82.5 years, which is over the average UK age of death generally.

On average 700,000 people die every year in the UK

The clear implication is that the pandemic had no effect and all measures (including vaccination) were unjustified.

How do I respond? Are the figures accurate?

As I understand it, Sweden did not implement any measures to protect their population, but I haven't heard anything on whether they were justified.

I suppose I should be looking this stuff up for myself, but there is so much shit out there and I wouldn't mind getting opinions from the bored.

Sweden did implement measures just less harsh ones but a lot of the reductions in movement enforced in other countries just happened in Sweden voluntarily. Comparisons between Sweden and countries like the UK and USA are daft considering differences in the welfare states, public health and health care. GB news is not a news source to be trusted. Make sure you check the original source (ONS) and understand what they were actually measuring. The solely from COVID is probably correct considering the number of people with co-morbidities but people can live with co-morbidities for a longtime. Excess deaths is a better measure.

[Lobby]

I had this sent to me today.

As discussed on the GB News channel on 19/1/22 in an interview with Professor Karol Sikora, ex WHO Head of Cancer.

The UK Office for National Statistics has stated that to date there have been 17,371 UK deaths solely from Covid.

The average age of death from Covid was
82.5 years, which is over the average UK age of death generally.

On average 700,000 people die every year in the UK

The clear implication is that the pandemic had no effect and all measures (including vaccination) were unjustified.

How do I respond? Are the figures accurate?

As I understand it, Sweden did not implement any measures to protect their population, but I haven't heard anything on whether they were justified.

I suppose I should be looking this stuff up for myself, but there is so much shit out there and I wouldn't mind getting opinions from the bored.

Sweden did implement measures just less harsh ones but a lot of the reductions in movement enforced in other countries just happened in Sweden voluntarily. Comparisons between Sweden and countries like the UK and USA are daft considering differences in the welfare states, public health and health care. GB news is not a news source to be trusted. Make sure you check the original source (ONS) and understand what they were actually measuring. The solely from COVID is probably correct considering the number of people with co-morbidities but people can live with co-morbidities for a longtime. Excess deaths is a better measure.

This is correct. Sweden didn’t have enforced lockdowns, but took several other measures to protect public health. Large public gatherings were restricted and people were also advised to work from home and not to travel unnecessarily, so the overall effect from voluntary measures was similar.

Although death rates in Sweden are comparable with other European countries, they were much higher than in the other Nordic countries

[Farva]

The economist measures excess deaths in the UK as being in line with the official Covid figure.
That’s really important because as Petej says, people can live with comorbidities.
I have a comorbidity (low level high blood pressure) but I plan to live to 90.

[Uncle fester]

I had this sent to me today.

As discussed on the GB News channel on 19/1/22 in an interview with Professor Karol Sikora, ex WHO Head of Cancer.

The UK Office for National Statistics has stated that to date there have been 17,371 UK deaths solely from Covid.

The average age of death from Covid was
82.5 years, which is over the average UK age of death generally.

On average 700,000 people die every year in the UK

The clear implication is that the pandemic had no effect and all measures (including vaccination) were unjustified.

How do I respond? Are the figures accurate?

As I understand it, Sweden did not implement any measures to protect their population, but I haven't heard anything on whether they were justified.

I suppose I should be looking this stuff up for myself, but there is so much shit out there and I wouldn't mind getting opinions from the bored.

I'm not sure you can really contest such material. The people spreading it are not going to be convinced otherwise and the people receptive to taking in such material, it's going to be difficult to convince them of the difference between real and pseudo-science.

[JM2K6]

Sikora really is a fucking grifter.

I see some of the other Great Barrington Declaration types went totally nutso over the last year. Gupta claiming that "repeated infection" is the only way forward if we want herd immunity was a real highlight. Bhattacharya is as anti-everything as ever, and was on Fox talking about how repeat boosters are bad for the immune system - ffs.

[Slick]

Sikora really is a fucking grifter.

I see some of the other Great Barrington Declaration types went totally nutso over the last year. Gupta claiming that "repeated infection" is the only way forward if we want herd immunity was a real highlight. Bhattacharya is as anti-everything as ever, and was on Fox talking about how repeat boosters are bad for the immune system - ffs.

What is their end game in this? They must know that they are being, at best, disingenuous. Sikora above must know about comorbidities and what that means to the argument. Is it just for publicity/ego?