Young People are Lazy Bastards: It's Official

[fishfoodie]

I will concede that tech does seem fucking horrible.

You have no idea !

Dunno, perhaps it's down to the individual, but it's just hard for me to get too upset about sitting in an office banging out memos and brainstorming about ultimately meaningless bullshit for substantially greater sums than when I had to load packages in a truck in the middle of the night, weedwhack around headstones in 100F Midwestern heat, or wait on 20+ tables while also mixing drinks, 8-10 hours at a time without really making much more than survival money.

And how many bosses did you have when you were weedwhacking ?

I'm going to guess one, & you didn't start, & have a 2nd one tell you to first do another job, & then have the 1st one come back & bollock you out of it for not doing, "their". job first.

I've had proper jobs too, working in fast food places, & painting, & construction, & there was always a simplicity about what you had to do to make the boss happy. Turn up on time, do what they asked, don't piss off the customers, & don't steal. It was fucking bliss compared with working in tech.

After burning out twice over twenty years, my breaking point came where we got stuffed in a room with senior managers who once upon a time had, nominally, done the same job, & the worse of them wasn't interested in hearing that people were flogged out, & their work/life balance was just trashed.

So he trotted out his version of the tried & true, Yorkshiremen sketch



And told us all how when he was an engineer, he did an 96 hour stint, with only an 8 hour break, & we needed to grow a pair & stop complaining.

So, because I was just fed up with this shit, I asked him how often he had to do these stints over a year, & he said twice; so I dug out our schedule of the last year, & the projections for the next 6 months & pointed out that we were going to be expected to do in excess of (I think) 18 of these stints over the course of a year !

I wasn't terrible popular with the prick there after, but I could care less, because he was infamous for one of his other little sayings; "Marriages come & go, but * is forever !", where * was the name of the multi-national. You won't be surprised to hear he had just gone thru divorce #3 himself.

I just got fed up with platitudes from Managers promising change, but impotent to deliver them, so when I got offered redundancy, I fucking lept at it, & swapped 60 hr weeks, & unpaid OT, for a reliable 40 hr week, & non-existent OT. It was a decent pay cut, but there aren't any pockets in a funeral shroud.

[sockwithaticket]

Amusing to see the old slow guys not realise that jobs where you actually have to use your brain all the time can instigate burnout even if you're not, I dunno, chopping wood or delivering mail for 70 hours a week

Besides, every single tech type I know who's experienced some level of burnout, including me, worked way beyond regular hours almost constantly. And the guys I know who've worked for the absolute shitshows that are Amazon/Twitter/Facebook have all chucked that in for the "easier" life of a 40-50 hour job doing high end tech work in a regular high pressure company.

Seriously though you guys have to realise that constant stress can happen in any job and there's plenty of jobs where working more hours in a week does not actually help the core problem at all

I will concede that tech does seem fucking horrible.

Dunno, perhaps it's down to the individual, but it's just hard for me to get too upset about sitting in an office banging out memos and brainstorming about ultimately meaningless bullshit for substantially greater sums than when I had to load packages in a truck in the middle of the night, weedwhack around headstones in 100F Midwestern heat, or wait on 20+ tables while also mixing drinks, 8-10 hours at a time without really making much more than survival money.

In those days I sometimes woke up regretting my existence -- although I suppose looking back, the ever-present saving grace was that I knew I wouldn't be doing it forever. Though of course, and I know a career change is easier said than done, you can say the same of the white collar professions.

One possibly revealing anecdote: in law school (was trying to dance around it but everyone finds out I'm a cunt eventually anyway), one professor asked the class who among us had had a job before; of ~90 students mostly in or approaching mid-20s, maybe 1/3 raised their hands, certainly less than half. My jaw dropped. But, it does lead me to wonder if part of the problem is many white collar types lack a frame of reference to realize how shit work can truly be.

Btw idk if you were referring to my post, but I was implying that working more hours would lead to more burnout, not less. Frankly I don't see how anybody could think more hours would be helpful in that regard, barring a few of the workaholic nuts we all invariably know.

For the record, before anyone Ok Boomers me, I just turned 30.

I'm only slightly older than you. Between the ages of 11 and 16 I went to a private school on a scholarship, it annoyed me no end at the time that I had to work (paper round aged 11, then sign holding for a sofa shop, then stacking shelves in a super market) while basically none of my peers did. Pretty much the same through uni where I'd temp something through the holidays to help keep me afloat during semesters. I definitely prefer my office job to retail or teaching and I've certainly come across people who lack perspective on work due to a cushier upbringing.

I also think what's often called work burnout or similar is actually either a symptom or complete mislabelling of crushing existential crisis for reasons I went into on the other page, but can essentially be boiled down to the future looks bleak and hopeless for many.

[mat the expat]

I'm just astounded (and disappointed as a Gen X'er) that we are still boasting about needing to work more than 35 hours in a week.

It's like we got this amazing technology to make work easier, then decided to double/triple the time it takes to do it.

Madness - and you'll never convince me it's not.

Americans never really lost their Puritan work ethic - it's not the 1600's any more. You don't need to work from Dawn to dusk

[shaggy]

I'm just astounded (and disappointed as a Gen X'er) that we are still boasting about needing to work more than 35 hours in a week.

It's like we got this amazing technology to make work easier, then decided to double/triple the time it takes to do it.

Madness - and you'll never convince me it's not.

Americans never really lost their Puritan work ethic - it's not the 1600's any more. You don't need to work from Dawn to dusk

Work might be easier if you all spent less time on here?

[Paddington Bear]

I'm just astounded (and disappointed as a Gen X'er) that we are still boasting about needing to work more than 35 hours in a week.

It's like we got this amazing technology to make work easier, then decided to double/triple the time it takes to do it.

Madness - and you'll never convince me it's not.

Americans never really lost their Puritan work ethic - it's not the 1600's any more. You don't need to work from Dawn to dusk

My theory is that for a lot of office jobs output is very difficult to quantify and so the best/easiest way to demonstrate your worth is by boasting about how many hours you have worked.

[Biffer]

I'm just astounded (and disappointed as a Gen X'er) that we are still boasting about needing to work more than 35 hours in a week.

It's like we got this amazing technology to make work easier, then decided to double/triple the time it takes to do it.

Madness - and you'll never convince me it's not.

Americans never really lost their Puritan work ethic - it's not the 1600's any more. You don't need to work from Dawn to dusk

My theory is that for a lot of office jobs output is very difficult to quantify and so the best/easiest way to demonstrate your worth is by boasting about how many hours you have worked.

Yeah, I remember working as an infrastructure project manager and watching colleagues getting praised and rewarded for putting in big hours (and forcing other people to do the same) in order to get a project back on track. Of course, they had been the project manager for the whole project so they bore the responsibility for it going off track in the first place. Whereas my projects didn’t go off track so i didn’t need to do that shit, but it meant I never got singled out for praise. Weird as fuck.

[ASMO]

Managing a database is front line dangerous work.

It is if you are using Access!!

[Dinsdale Piranha]

I'm just astounded (and disappointed as a Gen X'er) that we are still boasting about needing to work more than 35 hours in a week.

It's like we got this amazing technology to make work easier, then decided to double/triple the time it takes to do it.

Madness - and you'll never convince me it's not.

Americans never really lost their Puritan work ethic - it's not the 1600's any more. You don't need to work from Dawn to dusk

I think it has improved but it's still bad. A friend who worked for Microsoft in the UK in the late 80s transferred to the USA in the early 90s. He enquired about the lack of USA holiday allowance (10 days) and was told - "nobody actually takes it" - he was expected to work 6 days a week with no holiday.

I've always taken it that a manager who monitors how long people are in the office is just admitting they have no actual clue what their staff do.

[mat the expat]

Work might be easier if you all spent less time on here?

The beauty of IT mate, I'm network stress-testing

[mat the expat]

My theory is that for a lot of office jobs output is very difficult to quantify and so the best/easiest way to demonstrate your worth is by boasting about how many hours you have worked.

Which section of business got let go first during Covid?

The boasters as they were exposed

[mat the expat]

I think it has improved but it's still bad. A friend who worked for Microsoft in the UK in the late 80s transferred to the USA in the early 90s. He enquired about the lack of USA holiday allowance (10 days) and was told - "nobody actually takes it" - he was expected to work 6 days a week with no holiday.

I've always taken it that a manager who monitors how long people are in the office is just admitting they have no actual clue what their staff do.

I had a lawyer mate transfer to America from Oz

He worked.long hours before, but there he had to sleep at the office often

Shit's fucked

[petej]

I'm just astounded (and disappointed as a Gen X'er) that we are still boasting about needing to work more than 35 hours in a week.

It's like we got this amazing technology to make work easier, then decided to double/triple the time it takes to do it.

Madness - and you'll never convince me it's not.

Americans never really lost their Puritan work ethic - it's not the 1600's any more. You don't need to work from Dawn to dusk

My theory is that for a lot of office jobs output is very difficult to quantify and so the best/easiest way to demonstrate your worth is by boasting about how many hours you have worked.

Yeah, I remember working as an infrastructure project manager and watching colleagues getting praised and rewarded for putting in big hours (and forcing other people to do the same) in order to get a project back on track. Of course, they had been the project manager for the whole project so they bore the responsibility for it going off track in the first place. Whereas my projects didn’t go off track so i didn’t need to do that shit, but it meant I never got singled out for praise. Weird as fuck.

The fucking worst is when they then take your project off you and give you the shit project and the person who made it shit gets your project. Then a few months later you get appraised on "your" project.

[JM2K6]

Amusing to see the old slow guys not realise that jobs where you actually have to use your brain all the time can instigate burnout even if you're not, I dunno, chopping wood or delivering mail for 70 hours a week

Besides, every single tech type I know who's experienced some level of burnout, including me, worked way beyond regular hours almost constantly. And the guys I know who've worked for the absolute shitshows that are Amazon/Twitter/Facebook have all chucked that in for the "easier" life of a 40-50 hour job doing high end tech work in a regular high pressure company.

Seriously though you guys have to realise that constant stress can happen in any job and there's plenty of jobs where working more hours in a week does not actually help the core problem at all

I will concede that tech does seem fucking horrible.

Dunno, perhaps it's down to the individual, but it's just hard for me to get too upset about sitting in an office banging out memos and brainstorming about ultimately meaningless bullshit for substantially greater sums than when I had to load packages in a truck in the middle of the night, weedwhack around headstones in 100F Midwestern heat, or wait on 20+ tables while also mixing drinks, 8-10 hours at a time without really making much more than survival money.

In those days I sometimes woke up regretting my existence -- although I suppose looking back, the ever-present saving grace was that I knew I wouldn't be doing it forever. Though of course, and I know a career change is easier said than done, you can say the same of the white collar professions.

One possibly revealing anecdote: in law school (was trying to dance around it but everyone finds out I'm a cunt eventually anyway), one professor asked the class who among us had had a job before; of ~90 students mostly in or approaching mid-20s, maybe 1/3 raised their hands, certainly less than half. My jaw dropped. But, it does lead me to wonder if part of the problem is many white collar types lack a frame of reference to realize how shit work can truly be.

Btw idk if you were referring to my post, but I was implying that working more hours would lead to more burnout, not less. Frankly I don't see how anybody could think more hours would be helpful in that regard, barring a few of the workaholic nuts we all invariably know.

For the record, before anyone Ok Boomers me, I just turned 30.

It was more that it seemed you were equating burnout with just the number of hours alongside the physical stress of the job. Burnout is largely a psychological phenomenon and so one job that you spent 70 hours a week doing might be less likely to cause burnout than the 45 hour a week job that taxes your brain constantly and just heaps on the mental stress with no end in sight.

I've always been honest that I would struggle at some "easy" but high pace / on your feet jobs like being behind the bar at somewhere really busy, but in the job I've had for the last decade I've been spinning plates better than anyone who isn't the founder and it just works for me in a way that can't for the vast majority of people we've hired over the years. I still risked burnout and came very close a few times and it didn't really matter how many hours I was putting in - at that stage you need a total break for a good amount of time with the ability to not think about work for a single second, and it can be difficult to get to a mid or senior position and have that luxury.

[Blackmac]

I am so glad I am not a youngster in the UK today! I know my kids (in their mid 20s) and their friends work incredibly hard in responsible jobs and have struggled through pandemic and all the shit thrown their way when they should be out enjoying themselves and having the times of their lives. Many have left Uni with huge debts, can't afford deposits for a house, struggle on stagnant wages and any savings for a house are disappearing fast due to inflation. I had a student grant, no loan to pay back, could afford to get onto the housing ladder relatively easily, job progress was relatively guaranteed, could travel/work around Europe with ease and I now have a comfortable life in my own home with a solid final salary, index linked pension. I get completely pissed off with the ignorant views that todays kids are lazy and have it easy - we middle age/older baby boomers have shat upon them from a great hight and yet expect them to work hard, pay higher taxes and retire at age 68+ not for their own benefit but to keep us in the luxury we have become accustomed to. I wouldn't do it - I would feck off!

This. 100%

[Blackmac]

I can't wait to retire. I was going to go at 55 but now it's looking like 60.
I am one of the lucky
ones in the Public sector who will retire young with a decent pension. The youth of today are so fecked especially with their parents living longer.

Young lads I know who can hardly scratch their arses are on 100k plus pretending to press buttons in Google and Facebag. They'll be alright. I like you have an extremely average job befitting my extremely average effort and will retire nice and early to go on very average trips. We can't all be Gen Z tech or pharma high flyers pretending they have proper jobs

I am now officially winding down.
Coasting along for the next few years

Bet you don't. I thought that. Had all these plans to do that, stick the pencils up my nose and take a few weeks off with stress. Turn up for work in jeans and an open neck shirt because there was fuck all in the police regs that actually required me to turn up in a shitty M&S wool suit. Just stupid shit to make life easier because I felt I had put in good shift. Didn't fucking do any of it because I couldn't bring myself to.

Even when I left and started the wee gardening business, all the plans to kick back, work a few hours a week and spend the rest lounging about, that didn't happen either, because I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

[Paddington Bear]

My theory is that for a lot of office jobs output is very difficult to quantify and so the best/easiest way to demonstrate your worth is by boasting about how many hours you have worked.

Which section of business got let go first during Covid?

The boasters as they were exposed

None, because of furlough. So everyone carries on

[mat the expat]

No furlough in Oz in my industry

[robmatic]

Amusing to see the old slow guys not realise that jobs where you actually have to use your brain all the time can instigate burnout even if you're not, I dunno, chopping wood or delivering mail for 70 hours a week

Besides, every single tech type I know who's experienced some level of burnout, including me, worked way beyond regular hours almost constantly. And the guys I know who've worked for the absolute shitshows that are Amazon/Twitter/Facebook have all chucked that in for the "easier" life of a 40-50 hour job doing high end tech work in a regular high pressure company.

Seriously though you guys have to realise that constant stress can happen in any job and there's plenty of jobs where working more hours in a week does not actually help the core problem at all

I will concede that tech does seem fucking horrible.

Dunno, perhaps it's down to the individual, but it's just hard for me to get too upset about sitting in an office banging out memos and brainstorming about ultimately meaningless bullshit for substantially greater sums than when I had to load packages in a truck in the middle of the night, weedwhack around headstones in 100F Midwestern heat, or wait on 20+ tables while also mixing drinks, 8-10 hours at a time without really making much more than survival money.

In those days I sometimes woke up regretting my existence -- although I suppose looking back, the ever-present saving grace was that I knew I wouldn't be doing it forever. Though of course, and I know a career change is easier said than done, you can say the same of the white collar professions.

One possibly revealing anecdote: in law school (was trying to dance around it but everyone finds out I'm a cunt eventually anyway), one professor asked the class who among us had had a job before; of ~90 students mostly in or approaching mid-20s, maybe 1/3 raised their hands, certainly less than half. My jaw dropped. But, it does lead me to wonder if part of the problem is many white collar types lack a frame of reference to realize how shit work can truly be.

Btw idk if you were referring to my post, but I was implying that working more hours would lead to more burnout, not less. Frankly I don't see how anybody could think more hours would be helpful in that regard, barring a few of the workaholic nuts we all invariably know.

For the record, before anyone Ok Boomers me, I just turned 30.

In my working life, I have been:

Farm worker
Electrical engineer's apprentice
Retail shop assistant
Biscuit factory production line worker
Call centre worker
Poorly paid office drone
Slightly better paid office drone
TEFL teacher
Immigration consultant/business plan writer

The biscuit factory was murder physically, because the production lines were designed for middle aged women and not six foot tall blokes, but the worst job was in the call centre. The business was struggling, so it basically involved being shouted at for 8 hours a day and I found it hard to switch off after that.

Office work is really shit when it's badly paid and dull, and often there isn't much chance of advancement. When I worked in pensions, I had to move job four times before I managed to get above a £20k salary and away from the really repetitive work.

[Margin__Walker]

In my working life, I have been:

Farm worker
Electrical engineer's apprentice
Retail shop assistant
Biscuit factory production line worker
Call centre worker
Poorly paid office drone
Slightly better paid office drone
TEFL teacher
Immigration consultant/business plan writer

The biscuit factory was murder physically, because the production lines were designed for middle aged women and not six foot tall blokes, but the worst job was in the call centre. The business was struggling, so it basically involved being shouted at for 8 hours a day and I found it hard to switch off after that.

Office work is really shit when it's badly paid and dull, and often there isn't much chance of advancement. When I worked in pensions, I had to move job four times before I managed to get above a £20k salary and away from the really repetitive work.

I worked a few factory/retail jobs here and there before starting out working for the company I still work for now (16 years ago) in a call centre. Was absolutely the worst job I've had, although I made some good friends there. For large periods we were under resourced so every customer was pissed off already when they got through to you. There was no time to switch off and every second of your day was tracked and had to be accounted for the following morning when there was a debrief about how long people had been signed into various codes (not taking calls). Right down to being told you'd spent too long going to the toilet etc.

As I've progressed, I've generally found work easier with each new role and promotion.

[Paddington Bear]

The highest job satisfaction I have seen is from people working in high end manufacturing. I.e. if you work in defence engineering/aviation/pharma generally you find what you're doing very rewarding and are treated well by your employer.

[Margin__Walker]

The highest job satisfaction I have seen is from people working in high end manufacturing. I.e. if you work in defence engineering/aviation/pharma generally you find what you're doing very rewarding and are treated well by your employer.

Can imagine that would be the case. Often jealous of people that actually design and build things. You can hang your hat on that and explain it to your kids.

I deal mostly deal with regulatory projects. It's important in isolation to the company, but ultimately it's about risk mitigation and box ticking. No one give a shit. I've made my peace with it though.

[sockwithaticket]

The highest job satisfaction I have seen is from people working in high end manufacturing. I.e. if you work in defence engineering/aviation/pharma generally you find what you're doing very rewarding and are treated well by your employer.

Can imagine that would be the case. Often jealous of people that actually design and build things. You can hang your hat on that and explain it to your kids.

I deal mostly deal with regulatory projects. It's important in isolation to the company, but ultimately it's about risk mitigation and box ticking. No one give a shit. I've made my peace with it though.

Anything that has a tangible outcome.

I work for an exam board, so no matter how disconnected from work I feel I can try to tell myself that it's all worthwhile because it contributes to kids getting their qualifications blah blah blah. Yesterday I finished a tranche of training and user documentation for new software being deployed and it really didn't feel all that worthy or like much of an achievement.

I've found myself daydreaming a lot about being paid to execute conservation projects recently. Creating wild meadows, doing species surveys, cleaning up waterways etc.

[shaggy]

Satisfaction for me is when everyone goes home safely to their family at the end of their shift and we have kept the oil where it should be.

I am no longer one of those people who is working in a highly hazardous environment but I work bloody hard to make sure we do everything we can to make that site operation safe.

[sockwithaticket]

Jesus. I'm pretty glad I don't have anyone's life riding on what I do.

[Tichtheid]

One fencing job I did was pretty remote, the army flew our gear in by helicopter as a favour to the farmers whose land they often used for training, this was in the Pyrenees, we put up electric fencing (solar powered) to mark out large summer grazing areas for cattle.

The job was about a two hour walk in from where we left the Land Rovers.

Anyway, one morning a couple of the farmers came up to tell us that our boss was coming to see us that afternoon so we had better get on it, or words to that effect.

When the chief arrived he brought us some food, 5 litres of wine and a large bag of his, ahem, home grown smoking mixture.

We did feel a bit burnt out the next day.

[C69]

Young lads I know who can hardly scratch their arses are on 100k plus pretending to press buttons in Google and Facebag. They'll be alright. I like you have an extremely average job befitting my extremely average effort and will retire nice and early to go on very average trips. We can't all be Gen Z tech or pharma high flyers pretending they have proper jobs

I am now officially winding down.
Coasting along for the next few years

Bet you don't. I thought that. Had all these plans to do that, stick the pencils up my nose and take a few weeks off with stress. Turn up for work in jeans and an open neck shirt because there was fuck all in the police regs that actually required me to turn up in a shitty M&S wool suit. Just stupid shit to make life easier because I felt I had put in good shift. Didn't fucking do any of it because I couldn't bring myself to.

Even when I left and started the wee gardening business, all the plans to kick back, work a few hours a week and spend the rest lounging about, that didn't happen either, because I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

I actually put my plans off to retire at 55 bacause I would be bored. I used to do the conference scene presenting across the UK and Ireland. Fevk that now.
However I have 60 as my new retirement figure and am letting my colleague do much more of my stuff for succession planning.
It's a very very niche role and it will take about another 3 years to them to be able to take over aspects of part of my job.
I suspect when I feck off 2 people will be needed as I have dual role clinically and managerially.

[FalseBayFC]

I wouldn't call them lazy. Gen Zs, and millennials that I know quite easily work 50+ hours per week. But it is sedentary work, sitting on arse and typing. Others that I know can do those hours easily on a farm, doing fencing, picking fruit, forestry etc.

My daughters worked considerably harder at school and varsity than I ever did. They and their peers are incredibly focused and disciplined. My generation and that of my parents were much more easily able to buy a house or pay school fees to a decent school. Today it would take a lot more work to raise a deposit and afford to pay off a bond.

They may be more physically lazy though. When I was a child/teenager I rode BMXs, horses, went fishing and hunting and spent most of my life outdoors. Not many kids from middle class backgrounds do that anymore.

[dpedin]

My kids and their mates work their arses off far harder than I ever did! None of them sit on their arses playing computer games.

Both of mine hold down responsible full time jobs with big multinationals and are doing well, they pile the hours in and know their stuff. Both studied hard at school and University and held down part time jobs at the same time. Daughter was a swimmer when younger, trained 4-5 times a week early in the mornings and has her life guard qualification, now plays netball and hockey having did lacrosse at Uni. Worked hard during summer hols in student jobs in hospitality and supermarkets and raised enough cash to do voluntary work in Nepal then went off to South America by herself for a long tour. Son played rugby at school reaching national finals, is a bit of a gym bunny, plays golf and played tennis for school as well. He walks a few hills/munros here in Scotland with his girlfriend and both of them are cycling Lands End to John O'Groats this summer for charity. He won an exchange trip to Toronto, Canada for year at Uni and got a first, daughter did same, spent a term in Kingston, Canada and got a 2:1. Both of them are keen on mountain biking and skiing. All their mates are the same - they studied hard, the now work hard and they play hard.

The kids today work far harder and done far more than I, a baby boomer, ever did despite us leaving them all of our shit to clean up - the climate, the economic shit of Brexit, the politics of chubby grey old men and wars in Europe. We pay them shit, have told them they can't afford a house and have to play extortionate rents, denied them the right to work across Europe, charge them a fortune for their university education and yet we still complain they are lazy bastards .... what utter shite!

[Fonz]

I also think what's often called work burnout or similar is actually either a symptom or complete mislabelling of crushing existential crisis for reasons I went into on the other page, but can essentially be boiled down to the future looks bleak and hopeless for many.

I will say, I definitely think there's something to that.

Though I think it might be something more profound than pure material concerns like whether they are ever going to be able to afford a house or retire.

Society sells hard the idea that everyone is meant for great things, and even if you know it's unlikely on a conscious level I think it's hard for many to prevent it from sinking in just a little bit. The fact of the matter, and obviously this applies to me too, is that the overwhelming majority of people are just interchangable cogs in the machine. And that's fine. But it's a hard pill for many to swallow, I think, when we're inundated with messaging that insists that the opposite is the case.

[Raggs]

.
They may be more physically lazy though. When I was a child/teenager I rode BMXs, horses, went fishing and hunting and spent most of my life outdoors. Not many kids from middle class backgrounds do that anymore.

In my mind any complaint about a child's behaviour and even young adult, should be firmly placed at the parents. The parents have a far greater influence on a child's activities than the child themselves. It's why when we're choosing which children should come to festivals at the minis rugby club, I never base my choice on who came to training the most. The kids are almost never responsible for how often they came.

[sockwithaticket]

I also think what's often called work burnout or similar is actually either a symptom or complete mislabelling of crushing existential crisis for reasons I went into on the other page, but can essentially be boiled down to the future looks bleak and hopeless for many.

I will say, I definitely think there's something to that.

Though I think it might be something more profound than pure material concerns like whether they are ever going to be able to afford a house or retire.

Society sells hard the idea that everyone is meant for great things, and even if you know it's unlikely on a conscious level I think it's hard for many to prevent it from sinking in just a little bit. The fact of the matter, and obviously this applies to me too, is that the overwhelming majority of people are just interchangable cogs in the machine. And that's fine. But it's a hard pill for many to swallow, I think, when we're inundated with messaging that insists that the opposite is the case.

I think that's linked to what are ostensibly small things. Because we, the vast majority, are utterly unremarkable and don't really have any grand purpose we've been given or acquired goals and milestones like home ownership and working hard to retire in your 60s. Without those to aim for and expect we're all left looking around going 'Ok, so why am I doing what I'm doing? What's the point? '

Latent dread about the climate crisis too, even if it's not at the forefront of someone's mind all the time, the effects of it are demonstrable and unavoidable. The UK has had heatwaves in the past, but not as consistently as the last few years (yes, yes SH types "it's not that hot"...), flooding in certain areas is annual now where that wasn't previously the case. Subconsciously people must onboard that information, but not really know what to do with it. So much of solving or even mitigating climate change is, or at least feels, outside the control of the individual. Trying to carry on as normal while those who are supposed to be responsible for securing our present and future drive us inexorably towards further climate disaster... honestly, it makes it difficult to get up in the morning sometimes. Again, it encourages one to ask what the point of it all is.

And now I don't really feel like working today.

[Paddington Bear]

.
They may be more physically lazy though. When I was a child/teenager I rode BMXs, horses, went fishing and hunting and spent most of my life outdoors. Not many kids from middle class backgrounds do that anymore.

In my mind any complaint about a child's behaviour and even young adult, should be firmly placed at the parents. The parents have a far greater influence on a child's activities than the child themselves. It's why when we're choosing which children should come to festivals at the minis rugby club, I never base my choice on who came to training the most. The kids are almost never responsible for how often they came.

Joining the committee at my cricket club has been eye opening for this. We deal with constant shit from the junior section every month, I am not exaggerating when I say every single issue has been caused by parents. The kids just want to run around and enjoy themselves.