So, coronavirus...

[JM2K6]

Utterly disingenuous to take that angle tbh - not like excess deaths aren't tracked, or that the argument over death certificates hasn't been done to death(!), that other causes of death weren't heavily mitigated by lockdowns etc. But hey you think it wasn't worth it because ??? so that's that.

[JM2K6]

Utterly disingenuous to take that angle tbh - not like excess deaths aren't tracked, or that the argument over death certificates hasn't been done to death(!), that other causes of death weren't heavily mitigated by lockdowns etc. But hey you think it wasn't worth it because ??? so that's that.

I don't trust any of the figures from the left or the right on this. Everyone ended up compromised and in Ireland we are starting to pick that apart. I don't think it was worth it. That's hardly a complicated process that you need to throw a dig about.

Ah yes, various statistical bodies dismissed as being on the left (or right). Cool cool cool.

We know the consequences or should I say beginning to understand it in terms of cancer health and education. I could give you link to the Irish Cancer Societys concerns but why bother. You'll give some pithy reply and around around we go.
I have an uncle in law with lung cancer just operated on. Rumour at a family event at the weekend was he rang the doctor about breathing difficulties a year ago and was told as it sounded like covid he should test and rest up. Poor bastard thought he had long covid. Now that shambles is one of many though I have also noted many times I can't speak for the UK or NZ or the US. You all did your own thing.

What were the consequences? You reckon Covid wasn't all that bad so what are the consequences of Covid mitigations that are worse than what Covid brought?

I know nothing about the Irish health service, but a bit about the NHS. Do you think the NHS was in a healthy position prior to Covid? Do you think it could've dealt better with fewer Covid restrictions or would it have struggled even more? Do you think prior to Covid it was rare for people to be misdiagnosed?

Also best not to whine about pithy replies and throwing digs when, to be blunt, it's the majority of your output including in the post I replied to

[JM2K6]

Yeah didn't think you had anything beyond hand-waving. Fuck off yourself.

[Calculon]

what are the consequences of Covid mitigations that are worse than what Covid brought?

Impaired social and emotional development for kids. Learning loss for them too. Livelihoods lost, families not being able to see each other, which includes young mothers not seeing their children for several years, delayed medical treatments, mental health issues. Maybe you can think of a few others?

Maybe you had an ok lockdown working from home, and didn't mind the restrictions, but for many people lockdowns, restrictions and travel bans completely fucked up their lives.

[JM2K6]

what are the consequences of Covid mitigations that are worse than what Covid brought?

Impaired social and emotional development for kids. Learning loss for them too. Livelihoods lost, families not being able to see each other, which was includes young mothers not seeing g their children for several years, delayed medical treatments mental health issues. Maybe you can think of a few others?

Is that better or worse than the death and serious illness that Covid brought? ER's take is that most of the people who died from Covid were already old and/or poorly, so do we only care about the young? Do we care about the poorly only if they didn't get Covid? Is a delayed medical treatment worse than death? Are people who became seriously ill from Covid but didn't die (and thus aren't included in the only statistic some people seem to give a shit about) less valuable than people who became seriously ill during Covid when the NHS was on its knees?

I would also like to see some actual research and figures on this. The figures for serious illness and excess deaths are available. This isn't an argument that there were no downsides to lockdowns and other mitigations, that would be insane.

Finally, an explanation of "young mothers not seeing their children for several years" would be good. I have no idea what this means. We haven't even had several years of Covid, let alone several years of lockdowns, and the only people not able to see others for literal years are doing so because they are so vulnerable they cannot afford to do anything else. Please let me know if I'm missing something obvious.

[Calculon]

Is that better or worse than the death and serious illness that Covid brought

For many people it would be worse. I'm pretty sure if you ask most South Africans, in fact most Africans, what the worst thing of the pandemic was it would be the economic impact, partly caused by restrictions, rather than deaths or series illness. I'm on Shanghai and everyone I've spoken to about it think the restrictions here were far worse than any deaths or Illness. Someone in the UK, especially an elderly person or someone with comorbidities, might think differently. That's not a question with a definitive answer. COVID happened at the start of the Chinese winter holiday and a woman I know went to visit her parents. She left her little boy with her husband. She didn't see him for the next two years because of the travel ban. I heard of a few similar situations in a Weixin group. So yes , a few extreme cases but definitely worse than for instance my uncle dying of COVID. Not nice seeing your mum crying but the dude was eighty and a chain smoker. I guess my point being that not all deaths are equal and that fact should have and in reality was taken into consideration when policy was being made with regards to restrictions

[JM2K6]

Is that better or worse than the death and serious illness that Covid brought

For many people it would be worse. I'm pretty sure if you ask most South Africans, in fact most Africans, what the worst thing of the pandemic was it would be the economic impact, partly caused by restrictions, rather than deaths or series illness. I'm on Shanghai and everyone I've spoken to about it think the restrictions here were far worse than any deaths or Illness. Someone in the UK, especially an elderly person or someone with comorbidities, might think differently. That's not a question with a definitive answer. COVID happened at the start of the Chinese winter holiday and a woman I know went to visit her parents. She left her little boy with her husband. She didn't see him for the next two years because of the travel ban. I heard of a few similar situations in a Weixin group. So yes , a few extreme cases but definitely worse than for instance my uncle dying of COVID. Not nice seeing your mum crying but the dude was eighty and a chain smoker. I guess my point being that not all deaths are equal and that fact should have and in reality was taken into consideration when policy was being made with regards to restrictions

Death and serious illness also bring with them serious economic impact. It's not a case of comparing Covid+lockdown with no lockdown and no further impact from Covid. That's kinda the point. As we've seen in the UK, the NHS is wildly underfunded and has been for a very long time - it's been in a state of managed decline. Dealing with Covid was hard enough, but without lockdowns at least mitigating some of the damage it's hard to see how things would've been any better for those who were (for example) missing appointments or not getting screenings. It's hard to get good service at a hospital or your GP if there's huge numbers of people sick with a highly contagious virus. It's hard to have a healthy economy with a sick workforce.

I must also stress I am not talking about things on an individual basis. For someone who got Covid and died, that is the absolute worst thing that could happen. For someone whose only impact from Covid was lockdown causing them a major negative outcome, that is far worse than their experience of Covid. That is why we must look at the numbers and attempt to quantify these things. Of course there will be a number of people badly impacted. The argument being made is that the people badly impacted by the mitigations are more numerous or more important than those helped by the mitigations, with a side order of "the people who were most impacted by Covid basically had it coming given they were mostly old and mostly unhealthy" that doesn't get applied to anyone who suffered from non-Covid illnesses.

I am not at all in a position to comment on what the Chinese did/have done. I don't know how to separate fact from fiction there, and I assume that anyone on these threads discussing lockdowns and other Covid mitigations are referring to our own countries.

[tabascoboy]

Gentle slap on the wrist no doubt

A GB News programme which broadcast claims that the Covid-19 vaccination programme amounted to "mass murder" has been found to have broken Ofcom rules.

The claims were made in an interview with Naomi Wolf on a show hosted by Mark Steyn last October.

Ofcom received 422 complaints about the comments, and has now asked GB News to attend a meeting on the matter.

GB News said it accepted Ofcom's findings and it welcomed the opportunity to meet with the watchdog.

Ofcom found that the broadcaster did not do enough to protect viewers from potentially harmful content. The ruling follows a similar breach in April last year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-65532879

[Ymx]

Speaking of little gems from WHO, do we remember this WHO emergency?

Again, what's being implied here? That monkeypox wasn't a PHEIC? That the WHO was somehow scaremongering as opposed to just doing their job?

He's just trying to be a wind up merchant but without the nous to do it properly, best to ignore.

I think the labelling of monkey pox with words
International Health Emergency
probably overstates it. I believe at the time there were virtually none, or no deaths.

I suspect they (WHO) created the criteria for PHEIC which I’m sure it fits within. Though, it certainly does not fit with the general public idea of what an international health emergency entails.

So yes, they catastrophized it a touch!

[JM2K6]

In other words you know absolutely fuck all about it and are just making wild assumptions because in your mind it doesn't constitute an emergency. Brilliant stuff. We'll ignore the 196 countries who agreed on the definition in the IHR back in 2005 and the international expert panel who decides on whether something is a PHEIC and what the recommended action should be, and instead ask the bloke who flirts with conspiracy theories on the internet as to whether a disease rapidly spreading across the globe through poorly understood modes of transmission constitutes an emergency

The internet was a mistake.

[Uncle fester]

This thread has become like the PR one.

[C69]

You are always going to have lads who love the smell of their own farts Fester and in turn others blowing smoke up each others arses. That's been covid debates for me. A big pall of arse destined smoke

The problem is everyone has become fecking experts on viruses in their mind now and genuinely believe utter shite.
Some of us have dealt with such diseases and worn FFP3/N95 masks for decades and continue to do so daily.
It's a tad disappointing to read some of the shit that continues to be spewed out by the mainstream and the cranks.

It's safe to say the virus now is a different beast to March 2020. I've never seen such a disease and it's sequalae.

[C69]

You are always going to have lads who love the smell of their own farts Fester and in turn others blowing smoke up each others arses. That's been covid debates for me. A big pall of arse destined smoke

The problem is everyone has become fecking experts on viruses in their mind now and genuinely believe utter shite.
Some of us have dealt with such diseases and worn FFP3/N95 masks for decades and continue to do so daily.
It's a tad disappointing to read some of the shit that continues to be spewed out by the mainstream and the cranks.

It's safe to say the virus now is a different beast to March 2020. I've never seen such a disease and it's sequalae.

That's everywhere though. People rarely say I.dont know anymore. Working class Dubs love to pontificate on everything from water supply, to drugs policy, banking, sewage engineering, medical screening, you fucking name it.

Nowhere near on the scale of Covid with the mask debate the microchips, the Chinese disease, palm civets etc etc adnauseum, ad infinitum.
The R number, variants, Sweden is best etc tetc

[sefton]

Has covid attacked ER’s brain?

[Ymx]

In other words you know absolutely fuck all about it and are just making wild assumptions because in your mind it doesn't constitute an emergency. Brilliant stuff. We'll ignore the 196 countries who agreed on the definition in the IHR back in 2005 and the international expert panel who decides on whether something is a PHEIC and what the recommended action should be, and instead ask the bloke who flirts with conspiracy theories on the internet as to whether a disease rapidly spreading across the globe through poorly understood modes of transmission constitutes an emergency

The internet was a mistake.

Are you on the angry pills again?

Lots of shouting, theatrics going on.

[JM2K6]

In other words you know absolutely fuck all about it and are just making wild assumptions because in your mind it doesn't constitute an emergency. Brilliant stuff. We'll ignore the 196 countries who agreed on the definition in the IHR back in 2005 and the international expert panel who decides on whether something is a PHEIC and what the recommended action should be, and instead ask the bloke who flirts with conspiracy theories on the internet as to whether a disease rapidly spreading across the globe through poorly understood modes of transmission constitutes an emergency

The internet was a mistake.

Are you on the angry pills again?

Lots of shouting, theatrics going on.

Clearly your lack of comprehension extends to confusing sarcasm and mockery as anger. Also you've repeatedly made accusations of me in this thread and then hid when I've asked you to explain so trying to take any sort of posting moral high ground is laughable. You're an idiot who makes terrible posts like he's being paid by the groan. It's nothing short of embarrassing. At least ER is funny.

[Guy Smiley]

Has covid attacked ER’s brain?

No... it tried and was scared off for fear of contamination. What it did attack though and ultimately steal, was the brains of ALL of ER's neighbours, friends, relatives and his local Left.

[Guy Smiley]

Well, there you go. I was right.

[Ymx]

In other words you know absolutely fuck all about it and are just making wild assumptions because in your mind it doesn't constitute an emergency. Brilliant stuff. We'll ignore the 196 countries who agreed on the definition in the IHR back in 2005 and the international expert panel who decides on whether something is a PHEIC and what the recommended action should be, and instead ask the bloke who flirts with conspiracy theories on the internet as to whether a disease rapidly spreading across the globe through poorly understood modes of transmission constitutes an emergency

The internet was a mistake.

Are you on the angry pills again?

Lots of shouting, theatrics going on.

Clearly your lack of comprehension extends to confusing sarcasm and mockery as anger. Also you've repeatedly made accusations of me in this thread and then hid when I've asked you to explain so trying to take any sort of posting moral high ground is laughable. You're an idiot who makes terrible posts like he's being paid by the groan. It's nothing short of embarrassing. At least ER is funny.

Are you talking about where ER who wanted less lockdown and restrictions, had said the others had won??

So I pointed out, that’s not true, and highlighted a few cases where people wanted more restrictions than there were. Highlighting your post where you thought it was “really fucking stupid” to relax restrictions when it happened.

Then you can in with some comment. “Not entirely sure what’s being argued here … something something … (bad faith accusation)”.

I even clarified it again when ER thought you said his argument was in bad faith.

Perhaps at that point, I had thought it was very obvious, but maybe too nuanced for you.

As for you. Well, you need to fix yourself, you can be a right venomous little argumentative twat sometimes.

Hope this helps x

[Uncle fester]

You are always going to have lads who love the smell of their own farts Fester and in turn others blowing smoke up each others arses. That's been covid debates for me. A big pall of arse destined smoke

The problem is everyone has become fecking experts on viruses in their mind now and genuinely believe utter shite.
Some of us have dealt with such diseases and worn FFP3/N95 masks for decades and continue to do so daily.
It's a tad disappointing to read some of the shit that continues to be spewed out by the mainstream and the cranks.

It's safe to say the virus now is a different beast to March 2020. I've never seen such a disease and it's sequalae.

That's everywhere though. People rarely say I.dont know anymore. Working class Dubs love to pontificate on everything from water supply, to drugs policy, banking, sewage engineering, medical screening, you fucking name it.

Never realised you were working class.

[JM2K6]

Are you on the angry pills again?

Lots of shouting, theatrics going on.

Clearly your lack of comprehension extends to confusing sarcasm and mockery as anger. Also you've repeatedly made accusations of me in this thread and then hid when I've asked you to explain so trying to take any sort of posting moral high ground is laughable. You're an idiot who makes terrible posts like he's being paid by the groan. It's nothing short of embarrassing. At least ER is funny.

Are you talking about where ER who wanted less lockdown and restrictions, had said the others had won??

So I pointed out, that’s not true, and highlighted a few cases where people wanted more restrictions than there were. Highlighting your post where you thought it was “really fucking stupid” to relax restrictions when it happened.

Then you can in with some comment. “Not entirely sure what’s being argued here … something something … (bad faith accusation)”.

I even clarified it again when ER thought you said his argument was in bad faith.

Perhaps at that point, I had thought it was very obvious, but maybe too nuanced for you.

As for you. Well, you need to fix yourself, you can be a right venomous little argumentative twat sometimes.

Hope this helps x

Thank you for taking the time to explain - after all, you never actually responded to either of my original replies to your posts quoting and referencing me.

I am indeed a venomous little argument twat sometimes. On balance, I will take that over being a credulous buffoon.

[JM2K6]

Very droll.

https://www.thejournal.ie/tucker-carlso ... 2-May2023/

Can't say I understand why anyone has stayed on Twitter at this stage and how someone hasn't made a viable alternative. Mastodon seems way over engineered

Because the secret of twitter is the ease of use, the huge userbase, and the fact that it's not the underlying tech that made it popular. Twitter is incredibly poorly designed and only getting worse, yet is better than all the alternatives currently.

It's almost unusable at the moment though, the "blue check replies get priority" thing is an absolute shitshow. Just reams and reams of the worst possible takes known to mankind. It's like being back on PR.

[robmatic]

Very droll.

https://www.thejournal.ie/tucker-carlso ... 2-May2023/

Can't say I understand why anyone has stayed on Twitter at this stage and how someone hasn't made a viable alternative. Mastodon seems way over engineered

Because the secret of twitter is the ease of use, the huge userbase, and the fact that it's not the underlying tech that made it popular. Twitter is incredibly poorly designed and only getting worse, yet is better than all the alternatives currently.

It's almost unusable at the moment though, the "blue check replies get priority" thing is an absolute shitshow. Just reams and reams of the worst possible takes known to mankind. It's like being back on PR.

It is quite funny that it's basically only cretins who have signed up to pay for blue ticks and they are a massively negative advertisement for the service.

[dpedin]

You are always going to have lads who love the smell of their own farts Fester and in turn others blowing smoke up each others arses. That's been covid debates for me. A big pall of arse destined smoke

The problem is everyone has become fecking experts on viruses in their mind now and genuinely believe utter shite.
Some of us have dealt with such diseases and worn FFP3/N95 masks for decades and continue to do so daily.
It's a tad disappointing to read some of the shit that continues to be spewed out by the mainstream and the cranks.

It's safe to say the virus now is a different beast to March 2020. I've never seen such a disease and it's sequalae.

I agree wholeheartedly!

I was fortunate enough to not be directly in the front line but did lots of work 24/7 with those that were during the peak of covid and the stress and strain on them was horrendous. Even behind the scenes I and my colleagues were working days, evenings, weekends etc to try and keep services going and the stress on some of my staff was horrendous however they all stood up and got the job done. I had some staff volunteering to go into covid red zones because they knew someone had to despite at the time not knowing if they would catch it and die. I even had to stop some staff volunteering to do dangerous jobs because they were in the 'high risk' categories but all they wanted to do was help covid patients. The pain of watching otherwise healthy people die a painful death has taken its toll on our front line NHS and Social Care services and I am not sure some will ever get over it. The twats who come on here and say 'I had covid and it wasn't very bad so we shouldn't have locked down' and 'look how badly it has affected me cause I couldn't go for a pint and meet my brother' have absolutely no idea of the cost, pain and suffering it caused nor how close we were to a huge health catastrophe and as a result an economic and social disaster. Those who use the benefit of hindsight to claim we shouldn't have done lock down or ask folk to wear mask etc have no idea of the risks we were facing in early 2020 with little understanding of a highly contagious virus for which we had no clear treatment and was filling our hospitals up at an alarming rate. The NHS was in a state of collapse but kept going due to its staff and volunteers. The twats who now sit in their armchairs with their laptops and claim they knew better in 2020 and of course lock down was wrong are just arseholes being arseholes!

[Biffer]

Very droll.

https://www.thejournal.ie/tucker-carlso ... 2-May2023/

Can't say I understand why anyone has stayed on Twitter at this stage and how someone hasn't made a viable alternative. Mastodon seems way over engineered

Because the secret of twitter is the ease of use, the huge userbase, and the fact that it's not the underlying tech that made it popular. Twitter is incredibly poorly designed and only getting worse, yet is better than all the alternatives currently.

It's almost unusable at the moment though, the "blue check replies get priority" thing is an absolute shitshow. Just reams and reams of the worst possible takes known to mankind. It's like being back on PR.

Twitter has found itself in the position that it's multiple different apps at the same time, and that leads to an impossible monetising model. You have content creators who provide entertaining and interesting output - if anything these people should be paid for their content, by those consuming it. Then you have companies using it as a customer service tool - in that case you can argue the companies should be paying. You have people using it as a social network - you might argue this should be advertising revenue based. There are groups using it for campaigning, it might be argued they should pay a fee for this. And many, many more. The monetisation of such a jumble is impossible, so either you have to accept it and crash or carve out the one or two sets of things that will make money, and damn the rest.

You could split the app, into things like Twitter News, Twitter business service, Twitter creator, and some of these would be free to subscribe to, some of them paid. In some os them the creators get paid for their content, in others, they pay to provide content (E.g. customer service use). But you have to break it up and make it radically different.

[Ymx]

And there it is. We’ve now gone full PR.

I’m sad at my part in it. Sorry.

[SaintK]

And there it is. We’ve now gone full PR.

I’m sad at my part in it. Sorry.

Fortunately we haven't.
Not compared to the rabid shitfight I looked at yesterday with Bimbo to the fore politely explaining that he is right and everyone else is wrong

[Ymx]

To be clear, I personally thought we locked down in the UK just about right. Unlike just about everyone else.

I appreciate there are those on opposite sides of this. But I don’t believe anyone here has used hindsight. Not ER, not me, not dpedin.

ER had clearly been against the level of locking down in Ireland, quite early on, and remained of that opinion as far as I know. He had full right to condemn the consequences of lockdown. But this has to be balanced with not knowing the what-if of being more Sweden-like as it applied to the culture and demographics of Ireland.

Dpedin experienced a life/death medical condition early on which I don’t believe was diagnosed as Covid but he’s certain it was. So his fear of it is warranted.

I had been keen on locking up shop until people had vaccination opportunities and whilst alpha and delta were around. I took up the offer. But after omicron emerged, and I and family had Covid, my concern/fear evaporated and was keen to remove lockdowns.

I don’t think anyone however has used hindsight to twist anything. Just that we all had different anecdotal experiences. And we seek out opinions, justifications and evidence to validate our own. There was plenty of material ! I wouldn’t suggest many authorities had it right either with much of the stuff thrown out there.

Why are people so angry?! Probably because we couldn’t independently choose our approach to it, and we were forced to follow laws. Why couldn’t we choose? I guess the main one was fear that the health service wouldn’t cope.

[Tichtheid]

I have the rona, the comedy shaking, tinnitus and increased urination, like every 15 minutes to half an hour were unexpected

[C69]

And there it is. We’ve now gone full PR.

I’m sad at my part in it. Sorry.

Not really, I see my self for instance as a light house in the sea of excrement and the 4 humours.

[petej]

To be clear, I personally thought we locked down in the UK just about right. Unlike just about everyone else.

I appreciate there are those on opposite sides of this. But I don’t believe anyone here has used hindsight. Not ER, not me, not dpedin.

ER had clearly been against the level of locking down in Ireland, quite early on, and remained of that opinion as far as I know. He had full right to condemn the consequences of lockdown. But this has to be balanced with not knowing the what-if of being more Sweden-like as it applied to the culture and demographics of Ireland.

Dpedin experienced a life/death medical condition early on which I don’t believe was diagnosed as Covid but he’s certain it was. So his fear of it is warranted.

I had been keen on locking up shop until people had vaccination opportunities and whilst alpha and delta were around. I took up the offer. But after omicron emerged, and I and family had Covid, my concern/fear evaporated and was keen to remove lockdowns.

I don’t think anyone however has used hindsight to twist anything. Just that we all had different anecdotal experiences. And we seek out opinions, justifications and evidence to validate our own. There was plenty of material ! I wouldn’t suggest many authorities had it right either with much of the stuff thrown out there.

Why are people so angry?! Probably because we couldn’t independently choose our approach to it, and we were forced to follow laws. Why couldn’t we choose? I guess the main one was fear that the health service wouldn’t cope.

Pretty similar. I wanted to lock down earlier during the initial wave. Thought some policies were a bit dumb (eat out to help out). Couldn't understand post Christmas why England delayed telling everyone schools will be closed till the night before. Agreed with approach post vaccination and by omicron (having had it and been vaccinated) I thought it was time to remove all restrictions.

Key lessons
1 You can't run your health service so lean with zero excess capacity.
2 Overall public health matters.
3 people and society in general behaved well following the rules and the laws were possibly unnecessary. Members of our government were amongst the worst behaved.

[Tichtheid]

No Covid or 'flu jabs for the under-65s in England this coming winter


https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... his-winter

[dpedin]

No Covid or 'flu jabs for the under-65s in England this coming winter


https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... his-winter

Covid I can understand given the most at risk have had numerous boosters plus I am not sure we have a vaccine for more current variants which dont seem to be causing any real issues. However not giving flu jab to over 50s is crazy given how much pressure the NHS is under at the moment. Surely it would be better to try and drive flu cases down to avoid pressure on hospitals over winter and allow them to focus on tackling the elective waiting lists?

[shaggy]

To be clear, I personally thought we locked down in the UK just about right. Unlike just about everyone else.

I appreciate there are those on opposite sides of this. But I don’t believe anyone here has used hindsight. Not ER, not me, not dpedin.

ER had clearly been against the level of locking down in Ireland, quite early on, and remained of that opinion as far as I know. He had full right to condemn the consequences of lockdown. But this has to be balanced with not knowing the what-if of being more Sweden-like as it applied to the culture and demographics of Ireland.

Dpedin experienced a life/death medical condition early on which I don’t believe was diagnosed as Covid but he’s certain it was. So his fear of it is warranted.

I had been keen on locking up shop until people had vaccination opportunities and whilst alpha and delta were around. I took up the offer. But after omicron emerged, and I and family had Covid, my concern/fear evaporated and was keen to remove lockdowns.

I don’t think anyone however has used hindsight to twist anything. Just that we all had different anecdotal experiences. And we seek out opinions, justifications and evidence to validate our own. There was plenty of material ! I wouldn’t suggest many authorities had it right either with much of the stuff thrown out there.

Why are people so angry?! Probably because we couldn’t independently choose our approach to it, and we were forced to follow laws. Why couldn’t we choose? I guess the main one was fear that the health service wouldn’t cope.

Pretty similar. I wanted to lock down earlier during the initial wave. Thought some policies were a bit dumb (eat out to help out). Couldn't understand post Christmas why England delayed telling everyone schools will be closed till the night before. Agreed with approach post vaccination and by omicron (having had it and been vaccinated) I thought it was time to remove all restrictions.

Key lessons
1 You can't run your health service so lean with zero excess capacity.
2 Overall public health matters.
3 people and society in general behaved well following the rules and the laws were possibly unnecessary. Members of our government were amongst the worst behaved.

Do you really believe government were the worst behaved? I knew of gatherings of several houses on my street from day 1 of first lock dock, moving on to bigger ones as it progressed. A neighbour had their elderly parents around the house every day as their allotment was behind, multiple groups of young mums meeting up for walks in parks right from the start, kids sleepovers masquerading as childcare, etc, etc. Our green spaces were full on parties most nights with boxes of beer stacked at bins every morning. Yes the government were poor and not setting the right standard but the worst? Not a chance.

[Sandstorm]

EG51 is going to be deadly!

[dpedin]

EG51 is going to be deadly!

Not sure it is - apparently more infectious than previous versions of omicron but not any more virulent. Unfortunately the vaccine for this strain is still in development.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... 5-omicron/

[Biffer]

To be clear, I personally thought we locked down in the UK just about right. Unlike just about everyone else.

I appreciate there are those on opposite sides of this. But I don’t believe anyone here has used hindsight. Not ER, not me, not dpedin.

ER had clearly been against the level of locking down in Ireland, quite early on, and remained of that opinion as far as I know. He had full right to condemn the consequences of lockdown. But this has to be balanced with not knowing the what-if of being more Sweden-like as it applied to the culture and demographics of Ireland.

Dpedin experienced a life/death medical condition early on which I don’t believe was diagnosed as Covid but he’s certain it was. So his fear of it is warranted.

I had been keen on locking up shop until people had vaccination opportunities and whilst alpha and delta were around. I took up the offer. But after omicron emerged, and I and family had Covid, my concern/fear evaporated and was keen to remove lockdowns.

I don’t think anyone however has used hindsight to twist anything. Just that we all had different anecdotal experiences. And we seek out opinions, justifications and evidence to validate our own. There was plenty of material ! I wouldn’t suggest many authorities had it right either with much of the stuff thrown out there.

Why are people so angry?! Probably because we couldn’t independently choose our approach to it, and we were forced to follow laws. Why couldn’t we choose? I guess the main one was fear that the health service wouldn’t cope.

Pretty similar. I wanted to lock down earlier during the initial wave. Thought some policies were a bit dumb (eat out to help out). Couldn't understand post Christmas why England delayed telling everyone schools will be closed till the night before. Agreed with approach post vaccination and by omicron (having had it and been vaccinated) I thought it was time to remove all restrictions.

Key lessons
1 You can't run your health service so lean with zero excess capacity.
2 Overall public health matters.
3 people and society in general behaved well following the rules and the laws were possibly unnecessary. Members of our government were amongst the worst behaved.

Do you really believe government were the worst behaved? I knew of gatherings of several houses on my street from day 1 of first lock dock, moving on to bigger ones as it progressed. A neighbour had their elderly parents around the house every day as their allotment was behind, multiple groups of young mums meeting up for walks in parks right from the start, kids sleepovers masquerading as childcare, etc, etc. Our green spaces were full on parties most nights with boxes of beer stacked at bins every morning. Yes the government were poor and not setting the right standard but the worst? Not a chance.

I genuinely didn't see anything like that

[Ymx]

Pretty similar. I wanted to lock down earlier during the initial wave. Thought some policies were a bit dumb (eat out to help out). Couldn't understand post Christmas why England delayed telling everyone schools will be closed till the night before. Agreed with approach post vaccination and by omicron (having had it and been vaccinated) I thought it was time to remove all restrictions.

Key lessons
1 You can't run your health service so lean with zero excess capacity.
2 Overall public health matters.
3 people and society in general behaved well following the rules and the laws were possibly unnecessary. Members of our government were amongst the worst behaved.

Do you really believe government were the worst behaved? I knew of gatherings of several houses on my street from day 1 of first lock dock, moving on to bigger ones as it progressed. A neighbour had their elderly parents around the house every day as their allotment was behind, multiple groups of young mums meeting up for walks in parks right from the start, kids sleepovers masquerading as childcare, etc, etc. Our green spaces were full on parties most nights with boxes of beer stacked at bins every morning. Yes the government were poor and not setting the right standard but the worst? Not a chance.

I genuinely didn't see anything like that

You’d have needed to go outside to see such things. You know, leave the bunker.

I missed this thread!



(To be fair I never saw that level of breaking the guidance either)

[Tichtheid]

No Covid or 'flu jabs for the under-65s in England this coming winter


https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... his-winter

Covid I can understand given the most at risk have had numerous boosters plus I am not sure we have a vaccine for more current variants which dont seem to be causing any real issues. However not giving flu jab to over 50s is crazy given how much pressure the NHS is under at the moment. Surely it would be better to try and drive flu cases down to avoid pressure on hospitals over winter and allow them to focus on tackling the elective waiting lists?

The OP is misleading. It’s no free jab for the under 65, nurses etc…. Anyone willing to pay will be able to get it

"No Covid or 'flu jabs for the under 65s" is not misleading, Shirley?

You can't buy a covid jab privately, as is said in the linked article and the 'flu jab is no longer being offered to that age group on the NHS, which I think might be a big mistake, as per dp's post.

[Tichtheid]

Ok Karen you are right.

The government said in May that people in England under 65 would not be offered flu jabs this winter. It means about 12 million people aged 50 to 64 are no longer eligible for either free flu or Covid-19 vaccines.

Last year everyone over 50 was offered both. The Covid jab is not available privately in the UK, so those ineligible this year will be unable to buy the jab themselves.

I'm lost as to what your point is to be honest.