The Official English Rugby Thread

[epwc]

it needs to be a mantra that we can't have people suffering brain injuries and life-long disability just because big hits are fun. Everything else should be secondary to that.

Agree, too many players have suffered already

[SaintK]

Eddie was talking bollocks! Will be intresting to see how he leads Sarries now that Farrell has moved on.

Maro Itoje aims to prove former England coach Eddie Jones wrong as he takes on the Saracens captaincy.
Jones questioned whether Itoje was suited to captaincy in a 2021 book, claiming the second row was "very inward-looking" and did not "usually influence people off the field".
"I felt that was a wrong diagnosis of who I am," said Itoje.
"Most people who know me, most people who read those comments who knew me, would say that was an inaccurate conclusion to who I am as a person.
"I guess it was unfortunate that your coach would say something like that about you, but in life not everyone is going to see the things that way you see it."
The 29-year-old also denied Jones' claim that he had taken "acting lessons" to improve his leadership.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-uni ... 0m38y77yo

[JM2K6]

I haven't missed this debate though - it's just never-bloody-ending.




https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... g-the-game

Meagher is the fucking worst for this stuff and it's the same handful of coaches every time. Tedious whining about matches being ruined while referring to brilliant contests. Pricks, the lot of them.

They may have been exciting, but as a Bath fan I'd really rather Obano wasn't sent off.

But, yes, the whole ongoing back-and-forth is tedious, and it needs to be a mantra that we can't have people suffering brain injuries and life-long disability just because big hits are fun. Everything else should be secondary to that.

Sure, no fan is going to be happy when their player is sent off. But that was a gripping and tense final not at all ruined by the card as a spectacle or a contest. Did it change the result? Yeah, probably. Is that a bad thing? Well, most major events can have a big impact on the final result. What it didn't do was rob the spectators or the players of an excellent contest.

[inactionman]

No wonderhill or Du Toit, but Guy Pepper on the bench - keen to see how he goes.

[SaintK]

Saints team for Bath tomorrow night Mitchell out with a hip issue, Odendahl out with long term knee injury and the Fijian second row still with Fiji in their championship final at the weekend. Otherwise all present and correct.

Saints: Furbank (c); Ramm, Dingwall, Hutchinson, Sleightholme; F Smith, James; Iyogun, C Langdon, Davison; Scott-Young, Munga; Kemeny, Pearson, Graham.
Replacements: R Smith, West, Green, Hunter-Hill, Augustus, McParland, Thame, Freeman.

My mate was in at Saints yeaterday doing some work with Scottish hooker Smith. He had a chat and a coffee with Sam Vesty who said he thought Saints were a little undercooked and about a week away from where they should be!!!
If that's the case then Bath by 9

[Oxbow]

Having to play a backrow at lock isn't ideal, not sure why Hunter-Hill isn't starting he's looked quite impressive in the warm ups. Saints by 40 (or likely a narrowish win for Bath).

[Paddington Bear]

Bath are looking pretty serious here, bit of a statement

[petej]

Bath are looking pretty serious here, bit of a statement

Should have a player in the bin for being a twat. Hate that sort of shit.

[Paddington Bear]

Bath are looking pretty serious here, bit of a statement

Should have a player in the bin for being a twat. Hate that sort of shit.

100%. All very unnecessary.

[petej]

Saints definitely look undercooked but you win the title in may (I think these days) not September.

[SaintK]

Saints definitely look undercooked but you win the title in may (I think these days) not September.

True
Bit they shouldn’t have conceded that many points
I thought Bath were quite impressive and Hill had a very good game

[duke]

Saints definitely look undercooked but you win the title in may (I think these days) not September.

True
Bit they shouldn’t have conceded that many points
I thought Bath were quite impressive and Hill had a very good game

I think Ted Hill is up there with Russell and Du Toit as a key difference maker for Bath. When fit, he adds an extra dimension to the back row and I’m a little mystified how he doesn’t get more focus as a potential England squad player. Maybe his injury record counts against him?

[petej]

Exeter Vs tigers is dross. Shillcock is awful can't believe tigers can't find a better back up 10.

Edit: feyi-wabosi and a less inept 10 is the difference

[petej]

Red card to Kata. Kata collided with chessum in the previous sequence of play. Chessum sent for hia but Kata wasn't. Kata then gets his body position all wrong in the tackle gets red carded though has already gone off for a hia. Really don't think Kata should be on the pitch to attempt the tackle.

[petej]

That should be a red for the Exeter player if consistent. If you are headclashing with an upright steward there is little mitigation.

Tigers somehow win. Terrible stuff but can't fault the effort.

[petej]

Glos are the spurs of rugby.

[Stranger]

Foley was very inconsistant on the high shots. Glos need to finish their chances, especially as I have gone for them on superbru.

[SaintK]

Some pretty poor fare served up on the first weekend of the Premiership
Exeter v Tigers and Sale v Quins were fairly dreadful matches and only Sarries and Bath played to their potential
ITV have stopped their Premiership highlights review programme so didn't get top see any of the Falcons v Bears match though I don't think I missed much!
Hopefully the games will improve as the season unfolds

[SaintK]

Sinfield offered 3 year contract from RFU

Strong rumours that Joe El-Abd will be next England defence coach. Currently head coach at Oyonnax was a flatmate with Borthwick at Bath University
Very pleased it won’t be Gustard

[SaintK]

Having to play a backrow at lock isn't ideal, not sure why Hunter-Hill isn't starting he's looked quite impressive in the warm ups. Saints by 40 (or likely a narrowish win for Bath).

Hearing that Alex Mitchell has a fairly bad neck injury. You heard anything?
Edit: Mitchell has been stood down from all rugby activities. Seeing a second specialist on Thursday. Hopefully not as serious as it sounds

[Oxbow]

Having to play a backrow at lock isn't ideal, not sure why Hunter-Hill isn't starting he's looked quite impressive in the warm ups. Saints by 40 (or likely a narrowish win for Bath).

Hearing that Alex Mitchell has a fairly bad neck injury. You heard anything?
Edit: Mitchell has been stood down from all rugby activities. Seeing a second specialist on Thursday. Hopefully not as serious as it sounds

All I heard was that he was having a scan, sounds like it could be more serious than originally thought. Huge loss if he's out for a while, James is a decent enough replacement but it slips off after that, McParland still doesn't look ready for Premiership rugby.

[Hal Jordan]

Having to play a backrow at lock isn't ideal, not sure why Hunter-Hill isn't starting he's looked quite impressive in the warm ups. Saints by 40 (or likely a narrowish win for Bath).

Hearing that Alex Mitchell has a fairly bad neck injury. You heard anything?
Edit: Mitchell has been stood down from all rugby activities. Seeing a second specialist on Thursday. Hopefully not as serious as it sounds

Ben Youngs incoming?

[SaintK]

Having to play a backrow at lock isn't ideal, not sure why Hunter-Hill isn't starting he's looked quite impressive in the warm ups. Saints by 40 (or likely a narrowish win for Bath).

Hearing that Alex Mitchell has a fairly bad neck injury. You heard anything?
Edit: Mitchell has been stood down from all rugby activities. Seeing a second specialist on Thursday. Hopefully not as serious as it sounds

Ben Youngs incoming?

God forbid!!!!

[inactionman]

As expected, not good news re the independent report into club finances.

Seven of the 10 English Premiership clubs are balance sheet insolvent, according to an independent financial industry report which has prompted a stark warning that unless the sport embraces change it is “heading for a precipice”.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... es-haskell

The Hask has spoken:

I think this is now a line in the sand moment where all the spin and bravado around how rugby is faring needs to stop

It's really got to something when we're getting sound commercial advice from James Haskell.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... -by-report

[Dinsdale Piranha]

As expected, not good news re the independent report into club finances.

Seven of the 10 English Premiership clubs are balance sheet insolvent, according to an independent financial industry report which has prompted a stark warning that unless the sport embraces change it is “heading for a precipice”.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... es-haskell

The Hask has spoken:

I think this is now a line in the sand moment where all the spin and bravado around how rugby is faring needs to stop

It's really got to something when we're getting sound commercial advice from James Haskell.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... -by-report

Here's the report :

https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/64bd ... 202024.pdf

The most concerning bit to me is the steadily dropping value of the TV deal compared to the steadily increasing one in France. French deal is almost 4x the value.

[Margin__Walker]

Read the other day that ITV stopped paying anything for the rights to their weekly highlights show several years ago and the PRL had been paying all the productions costs to keep that going.

[Paddington Bear]

Can’t really be a surprise. Rugby seems to have had a delusion for years that it isn’t a minority sport, the TV deal reflects the reality

[JM2K6]

"Most clubs would be dead instantly if it wasn't for the owners propping them up" has not been news for a very long time, basically the entire professional history of the sport in this country barring one brief period prior to the salary cap arms race. What am I missing and why is this now being announced as bombshell news?

[Margin__Walker]

"Most clubs would be dead instantly if it wasn't for the owners propping them up" has not been news for a very long time, basically the entire professional history of the sport in this country barring one brief period prior to the salary cap arms race. What am I missing and why is this now being announced as bombshell news?

Yeah, agree. Perplexed by this too. This is like one of these stories that come up every time accounts are filed with a line in about them being essentially insolvent without benefactor support.

I think everyone knows by now that the majority of clubs would be cooked if their owner walked and no one stepped in to cover the losses in the same way LI were.

Post covid debt and a decline in broadcasting revenues has made this as bad as it's ever been, but again, not something anyone paying attention is unaware of.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

And as football so aptly shows you can have vastly higher revenues in the game and merely use that to create far higher levels of debt again.

Actually, one might care to consider just how many businesses, industries and frankly individuals are debt dependent. Rugby isn't a standout in this.

[petej]

And as football so aptly shows you can have vastly higher revenues in the game and merely use that to create far higher levels of debt again.

Actually, one might care to consider just how many businesses, industries and frankly individuals are debt dependent. Rugby isn't a standout in this.

Indeed. Many football clubs could fall over including the one that has won 7 of the last 8 premiership titles (I think). Chelsea's ownership structure is mental and the assumption in increased values of players as they mature is part of a high risk strategy.

[petej]

"Most clubs would be dead instantly if it wasn't for the owners propping them up" has not been news for a very long time, basically the entire professional history of the sport in this country barring one brief period prior to the salary cap arms race. What am I missing and why is this now being announced as bombshell news?

I think Sorries were post £5million losses every year through the salary cap arms race period.

[inactionman]

"Most clubs would be dead instantly if it wasn't for the owners propping them up" has not been news for a very long time, basically the entire professional history of the sport in this country barring one brief period prior to the salary cap arms race. What am I missing and why is this now being announced as bombshell news?

Handy to see it quantified, if nothing else.

Although I do wonder that there's a few finance types who see an underperforming company/market and are proverbially licking their lips.

[sockwithaticket]

Joe El Abd confirmed as new defence coach. Will be doing the role alongside hsi role at Oyannax until the end of the season when he'll be exclusively with England.

Meanwhile Felix Jones will serve out his notice remotely. Whatever that means in a defence coach context.

[Paddington Bear]

"Most clubs would be dead instantly if it wasn't for the owners propping them up" has not been news for a very long time, basically the entire professional history of the sport in this country barring one brief period prior to the salary cap arms race. What am I missing and why is this now being announced as bombshell news?

Yep I’m not sure quite how much balance sheet insolvency matters in a rugby context, beyond reducing their leverage in tv/sponsorship negotiations

[Lobby]

Joe El Abd confirmed as new defence coach. Will be doing the role alongside hsi role at Oyannax until the end of the season when he'll be exclusively with England.

Meanwhile Felix Jones will serve out his notice remotely. Whatever that means in a defence coach context.

"Gardening Leave"

[sockwithaticket]

Joe El Abd confirmed as new defence coach. Will be doing the role alongside hsi role at Oyannax until the end of the season when he'll be exclusively with England.

Meanwhile Felix Jones will serve out his notice remotely. Whatever that means in a defence coach context.

"Gardening Leave"

I suspected, although I'd quite like to see someone try and coach via Teams. Probably involves a lot of squiggly lines on the digital whiteboard.

[SaintK]

Joe El Abd confirmed as new defence coach. Will be doing the role alongside hsi role at Oyannax until the end of the season when he'll be exclusively with England.

Meanwhile Felix Jones will serve out his notice remotely. Whatever that means in a defence coach context.

"Gardening Leave"

I suspected, although I'd quite like to see someone try and coach via Teams. Probably involves a lot of squiggly lines on the digital whiteboard.

The article I read said Jones will be doing analysis work for Borthwick
He will also be released from his contract should he be offered a Lions coaching position

[Sandstorm]

"Gardening Leave"

I suspected, although I'd quite like to see someone try and coach via Teams. Probably involves a lot of squiggly lines on the digital whiteboard.

The article I read said Jones will be doing analysis work for Borthwick
He will also be released from his contract should he be offered a Lions coaching position

The Tour is in Australia. You don’t need a defence coach.

[JM2K6]

That's good, because Joe's record seems rubbish