Stop voting for fucking Tories

[fishfoodie]

That's an overly kind way of describing her, & how & why the Torygraph continues to platform her is bizarre, when you consider just how badly she fucked the Tory Party

As the Telegraph continues to shift rightwards, it probably finds the current Tory party a bit too centrist and not quite mad enough for its primary readership, so its hardly a surprise it continues to promote Truss. Its more of a Reform paper now.

Sppot on. It's a hysterical right wing shit sheet

Aren't they for sale ?

Probably hoping some ME wealth fund will buy them to further pollute the UK media with the culture wars bullshit.

[SaintK]

As the Telegraph continues to shift rightwards, it probably finds the current Tory party a bit too centrist and not quite mad enough for its primary readership, so its hardly a surprise it continues to promote Truss. Its more of a Reform paper now.

Sppot on. It's a hysterical right wing shit sheet

Aren't they for sale ?

Probably hoping some ME wealth fund will buy them to further pollute the UK media with the culture wars bullshit.

That has been vetoed by the government
The Quatari sovereign wealth fund took it as part of the £600m debt owed by the Barclays and are desperate to sell
They’ve only had an offer of £400m to date and are holding out

[sturginho]

Truss Social!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ream-media

[ScarfaceClaw]

Truss Social!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ream-media

:bimbo:

That is magnificent. Please please let it be called Trusst (or Trussed).

[tabascoboy]

Truss Social!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ream-media

That is magnificent. Please please let it be called Trusst (or Trussed).

Someone I read elsewhere suggested: Lettuce Speak

[sturginho]

Truss Social!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ream-media

That is magnificent. Please please let it be called Trusst (or Trussed).

Someone I read elsewhere suggested: Lettuce Speak

[lemonhead]

Truss Social!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ream-media

That is magnificent. Please please let it be called Trusst (or Trussed).

Someone I read elsewhere suggested: Lettuce Speak

Deep Salad. This will go as well as expected.

[dpedin]

That is magnificent. Please please let it be called Trusst (or Trussed).

Someone I read elsewhere suggested: Lettuce Speak

Deep Salad. This will go as well as expected.

Who is advising her? She is obviously at best deluded and more likely seriously mentally ill and it just seems she is being used by shady forces to push this complete and utter nonsense, Someone needs to take her aside and give her help.

[SaintK]

Someone I read elsewhere suggested: Lettuce Speak

Deep Salad. This will go as well as expected.

Who is advising her? She is obviously at best deluded and more likely seriously mentally ill and it just seems she is being used by shady forces to push this complete and utter nonsense, Someone needs to take her aside and give her help.

Her mates in 55 Tufton St. The IEA, Taxpayers Alliance and Global Warming Policy Foundation and whichever shady groups fund them. She's their useful idiot and helped her become PM

[Biffer]

I'm sure someone in our reliable, unbiased media will be asking Robert Jenrick if the Canadian conservatives, and Pierre Poilievre in particular, are 'an apt lodestar' for UK conservatives.

[Paddington Bear]

I'm sure someone in our reliable, unbiased media will be asking Robert Jenrick if the Canadian conservatives, and Pierre Poilievre in particular, are 'an apt lodestar' for UK conservatives.

Depends what you mean. Poilievre ran on a far more moderate platform that Jenrick would if given a chance. He was cruising in the polls until Trump slapped on the tariffs, talked about annexation, and the Liberals dropped a deeply unpopular leader for a highly competent replacement. Not going to deep dive into Canadian politics (that’s a true cry for help), but fair to say the Canadian Tories are a victim of circumstances well out of their control.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a scenario that has any bearing on politics elsewhere, not least as Trump seems to quite like Starmer and so is less likely to start talking about annexing us

[Lobby]

I'm sure someone in our reliable, unbiased media will be asking Robert Jenrick if the Canadian conservatives, and Pierre Poilievre in particular, are 'an apt lodestar' for UK conservatives.

Depends what you mean. Poilievre ran on a far more moderate platform that Jenrick would if given a chance. He was cruising in the polls until Trump slapped on the tariffs, talked about annexation, and the Liberals dropped a deeply unpopular leader for a highly competent replacement. Not going to deep dive into Canadian politics (that’s a true cry for help), but fair to say the Canadian Tories are a victim of circumstances well out of their control.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a scenario that has any bearing on politics elsewhere, not least as Trump seems to quite like Starmer and so is less likely to start talking about annexing us

Well Trump has said he would be open to the USA joining the Commonwealth, so perhaps its more a case of the UK annexing the US. Of course, if the US did become part of the Commonwealth, it would probably end up as a reverse take-over in the way that GB Shaw envisaged in his play The Apple Cart.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I'm sure someone in our reliable, unbiased media will be asking Robert Jenrick if the Canadian conservatives, and Pierre Poilievre in particular, are 'an apt lodestar' for UK conservatives.

Depends what you mean. Poilievre ran on a far more moderate platform that Jenrick would if given a chance. He was cruising in the polls until Trump slapped on the tariffs, talked about annexation, and the Liberals dropped a deeply unpopular leader for a highly competent replacement. Not going to deep dive into Canadian politics (that’s a true cry for help), but fair to say the Canadian Tories are a victim of circumstances well out of their control.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a scenario that has any bearing on politics elsewhere, not least as Trump seems to quite like Starmer and so is less likely to start talking about annexing us

Poilivere has spent years trying to sound like a sane version of Trump, one of course considers the notion of 'events, dear boy, events' but it was a choice to try and sound like Trump only for Trump to end up as popular as he always will with anyone exposed to him enough

Whether given the situation he'd have done better not having gone Trump-lite we'll never know, and it seems they extended their support too in this election, but one never need give any of them a pass, one should as a norm criticise and if they don't like it they can quit.

[Insane_Homer]

well, at least that should be the end of bad enoch.

[Tichtheid]

I'm sure someone in our reliable, unbiased media.....

On that subject, Monbiot from yesterday's Grauniad;

The BBC is utterly beholden to the right. Why else would it fear an Evan Davis podcast about heat pumps?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n-survival

[ASMO]

well, at least that should be the end of bad enoch.

you'd have thunk it...she is useless, can't put the ball in the net even when Starmer leaves an open goal, now these results seeing the Tories vote eaten away by the scum, if they don't get rid of her then they are going to get annihilated at the next GE, problem is who do they replace her with? most of the next in line are just as useless. I think Starmer needs t be careful too, his days are numbered, Cooper is a ready replacement though and someone who is a decent politician.

[Lobby]

well, at least that should be the end of bad enoch.

you'd have thunk it...she is useless, can't put the ball in the net even when Starmer leaves an open goal, now these results seeing the Tories vote eaten away by the scum, if they don't get rid of her then they are going to get annihilated at the next GE, problem is who do they replace her with? most of the next in line are just as useless. I think Starmer needs t be careful too, his days are numbered, Cooper is a ready replacement though and someone who is a decent politician.

The Tories' problem is that Jenrick, who is waiting in the wings to take over from her, will just try and turn them into a Reform tribute act, ramping up the racism and culture wars bullshit.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

well, at least that should be the end of bad enoch.

you'd have thunk it...she is useless, can't put the ball in the net even when Starmer leaves an open goal, now these results seeing the Tories vote eaten away by the scum, if they don't get rid of her then they are going to get annihilated at the next GE, problem is who do they replace her with? most of the next in line are just as useless. I think Starmer needs t be careful too, his days are numbered, Cooper is a ready replacement though and someone who is a decent politician.

Cooper will be asked to define a woman, and give up a lot of votes in the process. She/Labour need to think very carefully about how that advert of 'Kamala is for they/them, Trump is for you' played out

I did however before th election wonder how long Reees could survive in her job because she's a little to the right of Starmer and all PMs get fed up of not being more popular, might be a ballsy move if the bond markets look to make Starmer the next lettuce, but the George Osborne act is wearing thin for a lot of people, and a lot of those people Labour need

[salanya]

Only halfway in the counting, but so far Reform has gained just over 500 councillors, and the Tories have lost just under 500 councillors...

Labour have lost just over 100, LibDems gained just under 100. Greens gained 30.

[Paddington Bear]

Existential stuff for the Tories - being wiped out in places like Kent which are (were?) their heartlands. Makes the road back even harder. Can’t see Kemi lasting that long

[SaintK]

Existential stuff for the Tories - being wiped out in places like Kent which are (were?) their heartlands. Makes the road back even harder. Can’t see Kemi lasting that long

On the basis of the results in over 1,100 of the wards which have declared their results in these elections, the BBC is estimating that - if a general election had been held on Thursday and the places that did not have elections mirrored the behaviour of those that did, and if the principal parties contested all the seats - the results would've been as follows:

Ref: 30%
Lab: 20%
Lib Dem: 17%
Con: 15%
Greens: 11%
Others: 7%

[_Os_]

I've lost track of how many bad local elections the Tories have had. 3 in a row? I recall the first definitely felt like a big change and that Labour could win a GE (lots of stuff about "council elections don't matter" sounded like cope at the time and turned out to be so).

What we're seeing now is like an asteroid impact, mostly the Tories taking the damage, but wasn't as many Labour areas being contested.

[_Os_]

These 3 are interesting, they show how the Tories are losing at both ends of the spectrum, they're appealing to not many people now. They have to go all the way back to square one, and decide "who is this party for, what are we going to offer them", then relentlessly focus only on that group of people. Looking like an extinction level event is coming otherwise.

Kent to Reform. Oxford to Lib Dems. Wiltshire to both Reform and Lib Dems at the same time.

[SaintK]

Hertfordshire to no overall control. Has been Conservative since Noah was a lad!!!

[ScarfaceClaw]

Hertfordshire to no overall control. Has been Conservative since Noah was a lad!!!

They’ve been getting less and less votes of late. Was only a matter of time. The pot holes in our roads are celebrating anniversaries. Genuinely. People have left cards and a little cake by some of them.

[Hal Jordan]

Hertfordshire to no overall control. Has been Conservative since Noah was a lad!!!

Took them long enough to declare it, Hertfordshire always seems to have a bunch of narcoleptics counting the votes.

Lib Dem in my ward.

[fishfoodie]

Existential stuff for the Tories - being wiped out in places like Kent which are (were?) their heartlands. Makes the road back even harder. Can’t see Kemi lasting that long

On the basis of the results in over 1,100 of the wards which have declared their results in these elections, the BBC is estimating that - if a general election had been held on Thursday and the places that did not have elections mirrored the behaviour of those that did, and if the principal parties contested all the seats - the results would've been as follows:

Ref: 30%
Lab: 20%
Lib Dem: 17%
Con: 15%
Greens: 11%
Others: 7%

And if my Auntie had balls she'd be my Uncle

Anyone with even a casual acquaintance with Politics knows that the people who turn out for Locals aren't remotely similar to those who turn out for GEs !!

You can't compare the two, & only complete morons try to !!, enter the Beebs current Politics morons.

These results are far more serious for the Tories than Labour, because Labour were always going to get a hit, because they're in Government, & that's the way it works. The Tories on the other hand know that the one group that will reliably turn out Locals is Party members !!, & these results indicate that there's a big chunk of their own membership & their core vote that voted for the Reform candidates.

It's Defcom One for bad enoch.

[Hal Jordan]

If we held a General Election without Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland being allowed to join in, strange days indeed.

[Wyndham Upalot]

Cons in Bucks lost overall control for first time in whenever … great as that is, my local ward still managed to re-elect the fucking lazy blowhard waste of space HS2 appeasing richy rich Tory farming twat. Cunts

[fishfoodie]

Cons in Bucks lost overall control for first time in whenever … great as that is, my local ward still managed to re-elect the fucking lazy blowhard waste of space HS2 appeasing richy rich Tory farming twat. Cunts

I had no idea Clarkson was running for the Council

... I guess it's one way of getting permission for his various, projects...

[Tichtheid]

If we held a General Election without Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland being allowed to join in, strange days indeed.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... cember2021


I tried to c&p the table from the link here but it was beyond my ability. The reality is that England has nearly ten times as many voters as Scotland has, eighteen or so times as many as Wales has and thirty times as many as Norn Irn. Overall there are over five times as many voters in England as in the other three countries combined. (all numbers are very roughly rounded)

There might be times where the votes from the other three countries could push a vote one way or another, there are times when the votes coincide and the wishes of the smaller populations are represented, but the reality is that England gets what England votes for.

[Paddington Bear]

Hertfordshire to no overall control. Has been Conservative since Noah was a lad!!!

Took them long enough to declare it, Hertfordshire always seems to have a bunch of narcoleptics counting the votes.

Lib Dem in my ward.

Tories held on in my God’s own South Western corner of the county, much like the general election on a heavily split vote. No easy answer for either major party as tacking to either end alienates a chunk of voters.

On Scotland and Wales - there’s a decent chance Reform ‘win’ in Wales next year (largest party, can’t form a majority), and Reform’s numbers in Scotland are well well above what UKIP/Brexit party managed. Turns out a lot of Scottish voters don’t love immigration when actually presented with it, who knew.

Same principle seems to be happening in Liverpool and parts of other major cities, for whatever reason Farage is able to go well above his previous ceiling in places that were previously a firewall against him.

It’s why I incorrectly felt they’d fall short in Runcorn - in previous iterations Farage hasn’t been able to push beyond a decent second place without a local defector, no longer the case. An awful lot can happen before another election but we’re in uncharted waters and he’s on the cusp of a major breakthrough that smashes the old order and potentially makes the country ungovernable.

A fair number of northern wards where Reform are in an increasingly straight fight with some form of Muslim independent candidate (see the independent candidate demanding the public segregation of men and women who pipped Reform with Labour and the Tories nowhere), pretty horrifying stuff all round

[Tichtheid]

Hertfordshire to no overall control. Has been Conservative since Noah was a lad!!!

Took them long enough to declare it, Hertfordshire always seems to have a bunch of narcoleptics counting the votes.

Lib Dem in my ward.

Tories held on in my God’s own South Western corner of the county, much like the general election on a heavily split vote. No easy answer for either major party as tacking to either end alienates a chunk of voters.

On Scotland and Wales - there’s a decent chance Reform ‘win’ in Wales next year (largest party, can’t form a majority), and Reform’s numbers in Scotland are well well above what UKIP/Brexit party managed. Turns out a lot of Scottish voters don’t love immigration when actually presented with it, who knew.

You post a lot on immigration, do you have numbers on the Scottish attitude to immigration?

Polls I looked at the other day suggested across the UK the views were a lot more nuanced than you might like - the numbers viewing immigration as having a positive overall impact (around 45% iirc) seemed to be more than those thinking it has a negative impact - even Migration Watch were fudging the numbers to hide this when I looked at their pages

[Paddington Bear]

Took them long enough to declare it, Hertfordshire always seems to have a bunch of narcoleptics counting the votes.

Lib Dem in my ward.

Tories held on in my God’s own South Western corner of the county, much like the general election on a heavily split vote. No easy answer for either major party as tacking to either end alienates a chunk of voters.

On Scotland and Wales - there’s a decent chance Reform ‘win’ in Wales next year (largest party, can’t form a majority), and Reform’s numbers in Scotland are well well above what UKIP/Brexit party managed. Turns out a lot of Scottish voters don’t love immigration when actually presented with it, who knew.

You post a lot on immigration, do you have numbers on the Scottish attitude to immigration?

Polls I looked at the other day suggested across the UK the views were a lot more nuanced than you might like - the numbers viewing immigration as having a positive overall impact (around 45% iirc) seemed to be more than those thinking it has a negative impact - even Migration Watch were fudging the numbers to hide this when I looked at their pages

There’s tonnes out there on it and indeed a set of elections a day old suggesting that people feel it has got out of hand, how else do you explain Reform suddenly having a chance of seats in Holyrood?

And yes people have a nuanced view of it, which is the tragedy, a better managed more limited system commands public support. What we have doesn’t and could collapse our political system, we’re a decade on from Brexit and people would still prefer to bury their heads in the sand than address it

[Tichtheid]

Tories held on in my God’s own South Western corner of the county, much like the general election on a heavily split vote. No easy answer for either major party as tacking to either end alienates a chunk of voters.

On Scotland and Wales - there’s a decent chance Reform ‘win’ in Wales next year (largest party, can’t form a majority), and Reform’s numbers in Scotland are well well above what UKIP/Brexit party managed. Turns out a lot of Scottish voters don’t love immigration when actually presented with it, who knew.

You post a lot on immigration, do you have numbers on the Scottish attitude to immigration?

Polls I looked at the other day suggested across the UK the views were a lot more nuanced than you might like - the numbers viewing immigration as having a positive overall impact (around 45% iirc) seemed to be more than those thinking it has a negative impact - even Migration Watch were fudging the numbers to hide this when I looked at their pages

There’s tonnes out there on it and indeed a set of elections a day old suggesting that people feel it has got out of hand, how else do you explain Reform suddenly having a chance of seats in Holyrood?

And yes people have a nuanced view of it, which is the tragedy, a better managed more limited system commands public support. What we have doesn’t and could collapse our political system, we’re a decade on from Brexit and people would still prefer to bury their heads in the sand than address it

I reject that, Scotland in particular needs immigration.

If there's "tonnes out there on it" it should be easy enough to post a link to polls on particular questions.

Populism is very difficult to counter, you'll get no argument from me on that. It does not mean that the likes of Farage and his despicable ilk will act for those who vote for him, it's usually quite the reverse.

[Paddington Bear]

You post a lot on immigration, do you have numbers on the Scottish attitude to immigration?

Polls I looked at the other day suggested across the UK the views were a lot more nuanced than you might like - the numbers viewing immigration as having a positive overall impact (around 45% iirc) seemed to be more than those thinking it has a negative impact - even Migration Watch were fudging the numbers to hide this when I looked at their pages

There’s tonnes out there on it and indeed a set of elections a day old suggesting that people feel it has got out of hand, how else do you explain Reform suddenly having a chance of seats in Holyrood?

And yes people have a nuanced view of it, which is the tragedy, a better managed more limited system commands public support. What we have doesn’t and could collapse our political system, we’re a decade on from Brexit and people would still prefer to bury their heads in the sand than address it

I reject that, Scotland in particular needs immigration.

If there's "tonnes out there on it" it should be easy enough to post a link to polls on particular questions.

Populism is very difficult to counter, you'll get no argument from me on that. It does not mean that the likes of Farage and his despicable ilk will act for those who vote for him, it's usually quite the reverse.

What somewhere needs and wants are not necessarily the same, again, why are Reform likely to win seats at Holyrood if not for the fact that some people like their migration policies?

https://x.com/Layo_FH/status/1918327011480879212

Here’s one before bedtime. As I say there’s tonnes of stuff out there on this and given neither of us will change our minds on this we may as well not go round the houses. We’ll find out as more elections come in and Labour types continue to handwring

[Tichtheid]

Populism is at the "when did you stop beating your wife?" end of political discourse.

[Tichtheid]

There’s tonnes out there on it and indeed a set of elections a day old suggesting that people feel it has got out of hand, how else do you explain Reform suddenly having a chance of seats in Holyrood?

And yes people have a nuanced view of it, which is the tragedy, a better managed more limited system commands public support. What we have doesn’t and could collapse our political system, we’re a decade on from Brexit and people would still prefer to bury their heads in the sand than address it

I reject that, Scotland in particular needs immigration.

If there's "tonnes out there on it" it should be easy enough to post a link to polls on particular questions.

Populism is very difficult to counter, you'll get no argument from me on that. It does not mean that the likes of Farage and his despicable ilk will act for those who vote for him, it's usually quite the reverse.

What somewhere needs and wants are not necessarily the same, again, why are Reform likely to win seats at Holyrood if not for the fact that some people like their migration policies?

https://x.com/Layo_FH/status/1918327011480879212

Here’s one before bedtime. As I say there’s tonnes of stuff out there on this and given neither of us will change our minds on this we may as well not go round the houses. We’ll find out as more elections come in and Labour types continue to handwring

I can't see who was asked the questions - was that Scottish voters? That was the point of this exchange - Scottish voters.

[_Os_]

And if my Auntie had balls she'd be my Uncle

Anyone with even a casual acquaintance with Politics knows that the people who turn out for Locals aren't remotely similar to those who turn out for GEs !!

You can't compare the two, & only complete morons try to !!, enter the Beebs current Politics morons.

Nah. If you took the locals seriously you knew Labour had a strong shot of a majority in a GE years out. There's two reasons why they matter beyond just local politics:

1. GE campaigns at a local level are managed/run by councillors, for the simple reason they're being paid to do politics and are going to be far more organised than someone not being paid to do politics. The gap can be as large as the one that exists between a professional and semi-amateur rugby team, one preparing for a RWC over many years, the other potentially only in the immediate months beforehand. Reform now have a squad of 500+ paid activists four years out from a GE.

2. You can get a read on the trends from a local election. If a party is polling well but no one is actually voting for it in any real election, then it's probably going to get results at the low end of expectations. These Reform results are not that, they're completely mad, from nowhere to 30, 40, 50 seats and winning councils. Put it this way, the wisdom in the UK before this was a party which wasn't Labour/Tories had to slowly build in an area over perhaps a decade or so of constant targeted effort, the Lib Dems and Greens method.

[Slick]

I reject that, Scotland in particular needs immigration.

If there's "tonnes out there on it" it should be easy enough to post a link to polls on particular questions.

Populism is very difficult to counter, you'll get no argument from me on that. It does not mean that the likes of Farage and his despicable ilk will act for those who vote for him, it's usually quite the reverse.

What somewhere needs and wants are not necessarily the same, again, why are Reform likely to win seats at Holyrood if not for the fact that some people like their migration policies?

https://x.com/Layo_FH/status/1918327011480879212

Here’s one before bedtime. As I say there’s tonnes of stuff out there on this and given neither of us will change our minds on this we may as well not go round the houses. We’ll find out as more elections come in and Labour types continue to handwring

I can't see who was asked the questions - was that Scottish voters? That was the point of this exchange - Scottish voters.

https://migrationpolicyscotland.org.uk/ ... _May24.pdf

Largest group want a reduction and there has been a noticeable reduction in support for immigration. However, as mentioned above there is an acceptance of Scotlands needs for immigration and views are nuanced.

As said on here many times before though, Scotland has tiny immigration compared to much of England and, as with everywhere else on earth, as that increased you would expect attitudes to change