The Official English Rugby Thread

[Kawazaki]

One could look at that late Saints score and simply consider it's a two man tackle that doesn't stop the ball getting offloaded, and so you'd want a word with two players wasting resources in defence, addressing that which you can control. Or you could blame the ref.

Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you wet your face

The double tackle did stop the ball being legally offloaded.

[Kawazaki]

Luke Pearce RIP

It was pretty clear from the discussions between Pearce and the TMO that Pearce thought it was forward and was looking to the TMO to provide him with enough evidence to overturn the on-field award of a try. But the TMO kept insisting that the pass and try was fine. When Pearce kept questioning him, the most he would say was that, after looking at all the angles, there was nothing conclusive to overturn the decision. Pearce even apologised to Itoje when explaining why he couldn't overturn the decision.

So your ire should be reserved for the TMO.

Having said that, Saracens had benefitted from forward passes earlier in the match that were missed by the ref and TMO, most notably when Daly's pass to Gonzalez travelled about 10 metres forward before Gonzalez caught it and scored, so these things even out in the end.

Daly passed the ball at least 15m out the back of his hands whilst running at full tilt. It would defy the laws of physics of it didn't travel forward relative to where it was released from.

And it was about a 3m difference, not 10m.

This explaining momentum rule is getting tiresome.

[Brazil]

It cancelled out the very obvious penalty try for a tackle in the air that Pearce weirdly talked himself out of earlier. That and giving saracens extraordinary latitude in the ruck on the line, and all of the forward passes that were missed in previous tries. Pearce had a bad day at the office all over the shop, but mercifully it all balanced out and the right team won.

[Kawazaki]

It cancelled out the very obvious penalty try for a tackle in the air that Pearce weirdly talked himself out of earlier. That and giving saracens extraordinary latitude in the ruck on the line, and all of the forward passes that were missed in previous tries. Pearce had a bad day at the office all over the shop, but mercifully it all balanced out and the right team won.

It wasn't a penalty try. Goode would still have pushed him out had he waited the 0.3 seconds for Dingwall to fall the extra 15cm. And there was literally no Saints player within 30m of Dingwall when he passed it back.

[Lady P]

Jesus Christ I can’t believe Toga is still on about this

[Kawazaki]

Jesus Christ I can’t believe Toga is still on about this

All I did was post up the most egregious forward pass that was dismissed as fine by a referee and TMO that you'll likely ever see.



Pearce and whoever the twat in the van was have set a very high tariff for incompetence.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

One could look at that late Saints score and simply consider it's a two man tackle that doesn't stop the ball getting offloaded, and so you'd want a word with two players wasting resources in defence, addressing that which you can control. Or you could blame the ref.

Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you wet your face

The double tackle did stop the ball being legally offloaded.

Turns out it needed to stop it, and it didn't. So agin you could tell Daly not to make an ineffectual tackle assist, Earl doesn't need his help and Daly doesn't stop the offload, and Daly could then tackle the carrier, or one could look at the system Sarries use in defence which clearly has benefits but here one gets the downside of Tompkins having run himself out of the game (granted no system is without issue) so he too isn't there to make a tackle, and he could have been.

So you're left with addressing your own actions, or trying to foist blame on someone else because you don't want to take responsibility for your own efforts. And it should be clear which is the path to take because ref blaming in this fashion is just a toddler tantrum

[Kawazaki]

One could look at that late Saints score and simply consider it's a two man tackle that doesn't stop the ball getting offloaded, and so you'd want a word with two players wasting resources in defence, addressing that which you can control. Or you could blame the ref.

Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you wet your face

The double tackle did stop the ball being legally offloaded.

Turns out it needed to stop it, and it didn't. So agin you could tell Daly not to make an ineffectual tackle assist, Earl doesn't need his help and Daly doesn't stop the offload, and Daly could then tackle the carrier, or one could look at the system Sarries use in defence which clearly has benefits but here one gets the downside of Tompkins having run himself out of the game (granted no system is without issue) so he too isn't there to make a tackle, and he could have been.

So you're left with addressing your own actions, or trying to foist blame on someone else because you don't want to take responsibility for your own efforts. And it should be clear which is the path to take because ref blaming in this fashion is just a toddler tantrum

What a load of bollocks.



It was a ref fuck up. Call it what it is.

[ASMO]

The double tackle did stop the ball being legally offloaded.

Turns out it needed to stop it, and it didn't. So agin you could tell Daly not to make an ineffectual tackle assist, Earl doesn't need his help and Daly doesn't stop the offload, and Daly could then tackle the carrier, or one could look at the system Sarries use in defence which clearly has benefits but here one gets the downside of Tompkins having run himself out of the game (granted no system is without issue) so he too isn't there to make a tackle, and he could have been.

So you're left with addressing your own actions, or trying to foist blame on someone else because you don't want to take responsibility for your own efforts. And it should be clear which is the path to take because ref blaming in this fashion is just a toddler tantrum

What a load of bollocks.



It was a ref fuck up. Call it what it is.

And how many ref fuckups has Saracens benefited from throughout the season, it evens itself out over the course of time, its done just move on.

[Kawazaki]

Turns out it needed to stop it, and it didn't. So agin you could tell Daly not to make an ineffectual tackle assist, Earl doesn't need his help and Daly doesn't stop the offload, and Daly could then tackle the carrier, or one could look at the system Sarries use in defence which clearly has benefits but here one gets the downside of Tompkins having run himself out of the game (granted no system is without issue) so he too isn't there to make a tackle, and he could have been.

So you're left with addressing your own actions, or trying to foist blame on someone else because you don't want to take responsibility for your own efforts. And it should be clear which is the path to take because ref blaming in this fashion is just a toddler tantrum

What a load of bollocks.



It was a ref fuck up. Call it what it is.

And how many ref fuckups has Saracens benefited from throughout the season, it evens itself out over the course of time, its done just move on.

I don't mind referee mistakes. Mistakes happen. And they do generally even out. This was something else entirely. It's not marginal and it wasn't unseen. The referee and the TMO looked at this...




... and said it wasn't forward.

You hate Saracens, I get it, but it's a bullshit decision that could happen to your team next.

[Paddington Bear]

It probably is more honest to just say ‘I hate Saracens and I’m glad they lost’ than justify what was a horrific decision that has had a major impact on the playoff race (and left Sarries with no time to come back in that game). Particularly so given some of the people most vehement about ‘these things just happen’ can be found slating refs who went against their side within a couple of pages of this discussion in this thread.

Sarries losing at Newcastle with a decent side out (and being pasted to an extent beyond what the scoreline suggests) is the primary reason we probably won’t make the playoffs, doesn’t mean that we can’t criticise England’s top ref and a TMO for a very clear fuck up that’s well beyond a 50/50.

Nothing to be done about it now though.