So, coronavirus...

[TheNatalShark]

Covaxin - India's "home-grown" Covid vaccine - reports 80% efficacy from Phase III completed results. It;s already being deployed in India with an Emergency use authorisation based on interim Phase III results

Great news on a miserable day. Hopefully they can churn out production and that eases pressure on demand of local AZ production.

[Ovals]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 53341.html

Has to be taken with some caution, but basically rectrictions were tighter in France and Italy and observed/enforced better

Another factor is that we simply don’t have the police numbers to enforce a strict lockdown. In England there are only 211 police officers per 100,000 people. Germany have 358, France have 429, Italy 456 and Spain 533. Policing here has also been on the basis of consent, rather than being imposed on the population.

True - and when people saw Dominic take a drive (as an example) at least some decided to stop consenting.

It's impossible to quantify the effect that that escapade hade, but it definitely had some sort of impact

Absolutely. The rules became more like guidelines - open to interpretation and bending.

[dpedin]

I think the driver here is someones running for election in May (or not as events may unfold) on the basis on competence WRT dealing with CV19 so a narrative is being constructed.

What bullshit! This has nothing to do with elections, that is just spurious nonsense.

There is no evidence that a country has done worse than comparable others because of obesity levels, diabetes, population demographic, population size, population density, etc. In fact all the evidence says otherwise, see the examples I gave, which is the point I am making. Of course there are risk factors associated with covid19 but to use anecdotal evidence within a country to try and explain why one country has performed significantly worse than others is just not sound. To try and explain away the UK's awful Covid19 response and one of the highest death rates when compared to similar countries or indeed many other countries by saying 'we are fatter, have more diabetes, live more densely, are older, etc' is just a nonsense and not backed up by the data, or at least any data I can find.

I also think folk misunderstand the research. It is relatively easy to look at the range of factors above by country, these are well documented already, and to look at the relationship between these and the emerging covid19 deaths from each country and the demographic of those who have died and to try and identify if there is a common factor or issue across these i.e. obesity, demographic, pop density or diabetes. There have been a number of article published which have done this high level analyses.

There may be as yet an unidentified factor which has led to the UK having double the death rate per million than Germany for example or 4 times the death rate of Norway but no-one has identified it yet. Perhaps, just perhaps, it is just because the UK has been pretty awful in its covid19 preparedness, its speed of response, its PH policies and its ability to communicate and implement these?

We can leave why the devolved countries have responded better than England to the pandemic for another day.

It's very odd.

We know that age is a huge factor in covid mortality
We know that underlying health problems, such as diabetes, are a significant contributor to covid mortality.
We know that obesity is another factor in covid mortality
We know that transmission is more likely where people mix closely and that most hot spots within a country are in areas of high population density.

And yet, according to the 'data', none of these factors can explain why one country does worse than another.

Perplexing.

I can't work out if you are being deliberately thick or are simply just plain thick! I will leave it to others to point out the nonsense in your response, I'm giving up trying to explain.

[dpedin]

Lewis Goodall, BBC, quotes the OBR,

'OBR lays out the UK situation in stark terms in their first paragraph: "1 in 5 people have contracted the virus, 1 in 150 have been hospitalised and 1 in 550 have died, the 4th highest mortality rate in the world. And GDP fell 9.9 per cent in 2020, the largest decline in the G7."

Seems the OBR understand how shite the UK Gov has been in responding to the pandemic!

[C T]

Lewis Goodall, BBC, quotes the OBR,

'OBR lays out the UK situation in stark terms in their first paragraph: "1 in 5 people have contracted the virus, 1 in 150 have been hospitalised and 1 in 550 have died, the 4th highest mortality rate in the world. And GDP fell 9.9 per cent in 2020, the largest decline in the G7."

Seems the OBR understand how shite the UK Gov has been in responding to the pandemic!

It really is impressive how far people will go to make it not the governments fault. It's worrying how far ingrained people become in "their" party. Obviously of course there is the other side to this, people trying to blame the government for everything.

But the excuses people are finding. I'm confident that there are other contributing factors other than just the far too slow or far too fast (depending on if going into or coming out of lockdown) incompetence shown by our leaders... amongst other things they've mishandled. But it is at very least a large chunk of the problem.

If someone is so far into being a tory that they can't see this then they should grab a red cap and join a rally in America.

I also find the desperate clutching at straws of the successful vaccine roll out hard to comprehend. It is going well, and a big well done to everyone involved. But taking that success as a glowing example of how great the Tories are doing and ignoring everything else, no point engaging with people that far gone.

[Ovals]

What bullshit! This has nothing to do with elections, that is just spurious nonsense.

There is no evidence that a country has done worse than comparable others because of obesity levels, diabetes, population demographic, population size, population density, etc. In fact all the evidence says otherwise, see the examples I gave, which is the point I am making. Of course there are risk factors associated with covid19 but to use anecdotal evidence within a country to try and explain why one country has performed significantly worse than others is just not sound. To try and explain away the UK's awful Covid19 response and one of the highest death rates when compared to similar countries or indeed many other countries by saying 'we are fatter, have more diabetes, live more densely, are older, etc' is just a nonsense and not backed up by the data, or at least any data I can find.

I also think folk misunderstand the research. It is relatively easy to look at the range of factors above by country, these are well documented already, and to look at the relationship between these and the emerging covid19 deaths from each country and the demographic of those who have died and to try and identify if there is a common factor or issue across these i.e. obesity, demographic, pop density or diabetes. There have been a number of article published which have done this high level analyses.

There may be as yet an unidentified factor which has led to the UK having double the death rate per million than Germany for example or 4 times the death rate of Norway but no-one has identified it yet. Perhaps, just perhaps, it is just because the UK has been pretty awful in its covid19 preparedness, its speed of response, its PH policies and its ability to communicate and implement these?

We can leave why the devolved countries have responded better than England to the pandemic for another day.

It's very odd.

We know that age is a huge factor in covid mortality
We know that underlying health problems, such as diabetes, are a significant contributor to covid mortality.
We know that obesity is another factor in covid mortality
We know that transmission is more likely where people mix closely and that most hot spots within a country are in areas of high population density.

And yet, according to the 'data', none of these factors can explain why one country does worse than another.

Perplexing.

I can't work out if you are being deliberately thick or are simply just plain thick! I will leave it to others to point out the nonsense in your response, I'm giving up trying to explain.

Well, when you've stopped being obnoxious and rude - maybe you can explain what you've taken exception to. I appreciate that the evidence doesn't support that countries with higher ages, etc., have higher death rates - but I find it perplexing that that is the case, given what we know about factors that affect death rates. Why you seem to get on your high horse about it, I can't imagine. Especially when there appears to be no evidence to actually say what causes the variability in death rates between countries. Which leaves the cause as, rather, an unknown quantity.

You have suggested that the cause is around the Public Health systems - but that seems entirely anecdotal - something that you complained about others for using.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-75848-2 From Nov and heavy going - but an interesting read. They seem a bit perplexed as well.

[Saint]

Lewis Goodall, BBC, quotes the OBR,

'OBR lays out the UK situation in stark terms in their first paragraph: "1 in 5 people have contracted the virus, 1 in 150 have been hospitalised and 1 in 550 have died, the 4th highest mortality rate in the world. And GDP fell 9.9 per cent in 2020, the largest decline in the G7."

Seems the OBR understand how shite the UK Gov has been in responding to the pandemic!

It really is impressive how far people will go to make it not the governments fault. It's worrying how far ingrained people become in "their" party. Obviously of course there is the other side to this, people trying to blame the government for everything.

But the excuses people are finding. I'm confident that there are other contributing factors other than just the far too slow or far too fast (depending on if going into or coming out of lockdown) incompetence shown by our leaders... amongst other things they've mishandled. But it is at very least a large chunk of the problem.

If someone is so far into being a tory that they can't see this then they should grab a red cap and join a rally in America.

I also find the desperate clutching at straws of the successful vaccine roll out hard to comprehend. It is going well, and a big well done to everyone involved. But taking that success as a glowing example of how great the Tories are doing and ignoring everything else, no point engaging with people that far gone.

There is virtually no-one on this thread who has done anything but criticise the government at various stages for how they've handled things (even Bimbo has criticised them, albeit from a very different standpoint). But there are obviously MANY different factors involved when you start looking at how well any single government has performed in terms of response to the pandemic (putting Vaccine dev and rollout to one side completely). To try and pretend that Covid impacts every country completely equally without government intervention is fallacy number one - we know with absolute certainty that that is not the case, but we also know that we are struggling to quantify both the levels of difference and exactly what the key factors are.

As for the OBR - all the oBR review is stating absolute facts. What has happened. It's manking no judgement as to fault, how we got here or anything like that. It's not assigning blame. That's not their job and to try and pretend that that's what they're doing there is fairly dumb

[Ovals]

Lewis Goodall, BBC, quotes the OBR,

'OBR lays out the UK situation in stark terms in their first paragraph: "1 in 5 people have contracted the virus, 1 in 150 have been hospitalised and 1 in 550 have died, the 4th highest mortality rate in the world. And GDP fell 9.9 per cent in 2020, the largest decline in the G7."

Seems the OBR understand how shite the UK Gov has been in responding to the pandemic!

It really is impressive how far people will go to make it not the governments fault. It's worrying how far ingrained people become in "their" party. Obviously of course there is the other side to this, people trying to blame the government for everything.

But the excuses people are finding. I'm confident that there are other contributing factors other than just the far too slow or far too fast (depending on if going into or coming out of lockdown) incompetence shown by our leaders... amongst other things they've mishandled. But it is at very least a large chunk of the problem.

If someone is so far into being a tory that they can't see this then they should grab a red cap and join a rally in America.

I also find the desperate clutching at straws of the successful vaccine roll out hard to comprehend. It is going well, and a big well done to everyone involved. But taking that success as a glowing example of how great the Tories are doing and ignoring everything else, no point engaging with people that far gone.

There is virtually no-one on this thread who has done anything but criticise the government at various stages for how they've handled things (even Bimbo has criticised them, albeit from a very different standpoint). But there are obviously MANY different factors involved when you start looking at how well any single government has performed in terms of response to the pandemic (putting Vaccine dev and rollout to one side completely). To try and pretend that Covid impacts every country completely equally without government intervention is fallacy number one - we know with absolute certainty that that is not the case, but we also know that we are struggling to quantify both the levels of difference and exactly what the key factors are.

As for the OBR - all the oBR review is stating absolute facts. What has happened. It's manking no judgement as to fault, how we got here or anything like that. It's not assigning blame. That's not their job and to try and pretend that that's what they're doing there is fairly dumb

Well put Saint. I'm certainly no supporter of the Tories - and they have certainly mishandled many aspects of this pandemic - but I'm not convinced that is the entire reason for our high death rate - there seems to be other factors, as yet unclear, at play.

The success of the vaccine programme certainly does not give this Government a free pass, but it is most welcome.

[Sandstorm]

Let’s not let this thread go the way of PR, folks. Keep it civil please.

[Ymx]

I thought it was quite telling the NHS staff said for the public to stop clapping for the overstretched NHS, and show appreciation by following the government’s guidelines.

[Ovals]

Let’s not let this thread go the way of PR, folks. Keep it civil please.

[Rinkals]

For what it's worth I'm not convinced that I'd rather have police checking papers etc than what we have.

No, but if that's the way that you want to go (and I do concur that it's preferable), then you need your leaders setting an example rather than behaving as if they are exempt.

Also, any measures implemented need to be backed up with a rational scientific methodology rather than appearing to be sucked out of some politician's thumb. Rule of six? Jesus!

[Rinkals]

It's very odd.

We know that age is a huge factor in covid mortality
We know that underlying health problems, such as diabetes, are a significant contributor to covid mortality.
We know that obesity is another factor in covid mortality
We know that transmission is more likely where people mix closely and that most hot spots within a country are in areas of high population density.

And yet, according to the 'data', none of these factors can explain why one country does worse than another.

Perplexing.

I can't work out if you are being deliberately thick or are simply just plain thick! I will leave it to others to point out the nonsense in your response, I'm giving up trying to explain.

Well, when you've stopped being obnoxious and rude - maybe you can explain what you've taken exception to. I appreciate that the evidence doesn't support that countries with higher ages, etc., have higher death rates - but I find it perplexing that that is the case, given what we know about factors that affect death rates. Why you seem to get on your high horse about it, I can't imagine. Especially when there appears to be no evidence to actually say what causes the variability in death rates between countries. Which leaves the cause as, rather, an unknown quantity.

You have suggested that the cause is around the Public Health systems - but that seems entirely anecdotal - something that you complained about others for using.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-75848-2 From Nov and heavy going - but an interesting read. They seem a bit perplexed as well.

I think he thought you were being sarcastic.

I agree that the behaviour of the virus doesn't follow logic.

Which makes tackling it all the more problematic.

However, there's another aspect to this, which is that the inconsistencies of this behaviour feeds daft conspiracy theories and barmy snake-oil cures.

[Ovals]

I can't work out if you are being deliberately thick or are simply just plain thick! I will leave it to others to point out the nonsense in your response, I'm giving up trying to explain.

Well, when you've stopped being obnoxious and rude - maybe you can explain what you've taken exception to. I appreciate that the evidence doesn't support that countries with higher ages, etc., have higher death rates - but I find it perplexing that that is the case, given what we know about factors that affect death rates. Why you seem to get on your high horse about it, I can't imagine. Especially when there appears to be no evidence to actually say what causes the variability in death rates between countries. Which leaves the cause as, rather, an unknown quantity.

You have suggested that the cause is around the Public Health systems - but that seems entirely anecdotal - something that you complained about others for using.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-75848-2 From Nov and heavy going - but an interesting read. They seem a bit perplexed as well.

I think he thought you were being sarcastic.

I agree that the behaviour of the virus doesn't follow logic.

Which makes tackling it all the more problematic.

However, there's another aspect to this, which is that the inconsistencies of this behaviour feeds daft conspiracy theories and barmy snake-oil cures.

I certainly don't subscribe to his notion that countries with much lowers rates, in Asia, had Public Health system that were better prepared than in the UK and other Western countries. Unless I've totally misunderstood him.

I had wondered whether poorer nations, with lower hygiene and medical resources, were accidentally 'proof testing' their population. People that survived conditions in poorer countries being those that are either stronger and, or, have built up greater immunity/resistance through exposure to more communicable diseases.

This study, from last year, follows that sort of hypothesis and finds some evidence to support it, particularly with respect to auto immune diseases. However, it doesn't really explain the high incidence of deaths in several South American Countries.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 696v2.full

[Paddington Bear]

Read a thing a while back and can't remember who wrote it so take with plenty of salt, but there was a suggestion that less dangerous coronaviruses may have spread through asia over the last few years, giving people a higher underlying level of immunity. May be total bollocks.

[Calculon]

This is an old article from the dt, but I think it does quite well in explaining why countries in SE Asia were better prepared for the pandemic.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... s-britain/

It makes sense to me at least

[Ovals]

This is an old article from the dt, but I think it does quite well in explaining why countries in SE Asia were better prepared for the pandemic.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... s-britain/



It makes sense to me at least

Doesn't really explain all the non Asian countries that have had lower covid mortalities.

[Sandstorm]

Read a thing a while back and can't remember who wrote it so take with plenty of salt, but there was a suggestion that less dangerous coronaviruses may have spread through asia over the last few years, giving people a higher underlying level of immunity. May be total bollocks.

Those corona viruses attack the lungs, we've seen them before and we have all had decades to build up some immunity to them.

Covid19 targets the blood and is brand new. No-one has immunity to it yet. It's a proper fucker.

[Ovals]

This article might square things up about why some nations have more death than others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... al-report/

It's behind a paywall - can you paste the key bits ?

Edit - no matter, the Guardian also have the story - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021 ... ays-report

TBH - that theory makes much more sense.

[Sandstorm]

This article might square things up about why some nations have more death than others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... al-report/

It's behind a paywall - can you paste the key bits ?

Edit - no matter, the Guardian also have the story - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021 ... ays-report

TBH - that theory makes much more sense.

"The fat and the ancient are most at risk...."

I called it last summer.

[TheNatalShark]

Italy confirms first European export ban of vaccines produced locally, 250k AZ which were destined for Aus.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/hea ... -1.4501365

https://www.ft.com/content/bed655ac-928 ... 15284798c8

[Saint]

Italy confirms first European export ban of vaccines produced locally, 250k AZ which were destined for Aus.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/hea ... -1.4501365

https://www.ft.com/content/bed655ac-928 ... 15284798c8

That's pretty much ended any long term pharma investment in Italy then

[Calculon]

This article might square things up about why some nations have more death than others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... al-report/

It's behind a paywall - can you paste the key bits ?

Edit - no matter, the Guardian also have the story - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021 ... ays-report

TBH - that theory makes much more sense.

I don't see them as mutually exclusive.

[Calculon]

This article might square things up about why some nations have more death than others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... al-report/

It's behind a paywall - can you paste the key bits ?

Edit - no matter, the Guardian also have the story - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021 ... ays-report

TBH - that theory makes much more sense.

"The fat and the ancient are most at risk...."

I called it last summer.

I strongly suspect what saved SA from total carnage is that we don't have too many old people. To our shame we have a higher % fatties than the UK, millions living on top of each other in shanty towns where social distancing is impossible, ridiculous rates of HIV and TB infections, a poorly funded and overstretched health service, a fatalistic population that doesn't tend to follow rules, and a government whose response to the pandemic was decidedly mixed.

[TheNatalShark]

Italy confirms first European export ban of vaccines produced locally, 250k AZ which were destined for Aus.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/hea ... -1.4501365

https://www.ft.com/content/bed655ac-928 ... 15284798c8

That's pretty much ended any long term pharma investment in Italy then

It's incredibly sad they are interfering with the free market, they should allow the exports unfettered, like the UK

It would be great if we could indulge in meaningful one-upmanship here. Few things would get the rabble rousing better than the British cavalry coming to Aussie aid after those dirty Europeans engage in such selfish action.

[Saint]

Italy confirms first European export ban of vaccines produced locally, 250k AZ which were destined for Aus.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/hea ... -1.4501365

https://www.ft.com/content/bed655ac-928 ... 15284798c8

That's pretty much ended any long term pharma investment in Italy then

It's incredibly sad they are interfering with the free market, they should allow the exports unfettered, like the UK

It would be great if we could indulge in meaningful one-upmanship here. Few things would get the rabble rousing better than the British cavalry coming to Aussie aid after those dirty Europeans engage in such selfish action.

No interested in one upmanship at all. But the long term implications of this are disturbing for everyone, and have not been thought through by the EU. Supply chains for most drugs and especially these modern vaccines are long and complex, passing through many different jurisdictions. It's virtually impossible to point at a single country/location and say that that vaccine was manufactured in country X/Y/Z. This kind of action leaves them wide open to retaliation in all sorts of places that on the surface they believe they are secure.

[Calculon]

Italy confirms first European export ban of vaccines produced locally, 250k AZ which were destined for Aus.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/hea ... -1.4501365

https://www.ft.com/content/bed655ac-928 ... 15284798c8

That's pretty much ended any long term pharma investment in Italy then

It's incredibly sad they are interfering with the free market, they should allow the exports unfettered, like the UK

It would be great if we could indulge in meaningful one-upmanship here. Few things would get the rabble rousing better than the British cavalry coming to Aussie aid after those dirty Europeans engage in such selfish action.

or indeed like the USA....anyway, there's around 500 000 doses of the AZ lying about in SA that Australia can have

[BnM]

Italy and Germany will administer just a single coronavirus vaccine dose to people who have been infected with the virus up to six months beforehand, amid a scramble to save shots

How long till they take longer between doses for everyone else...

Sweden (see 1.32pm) and Germany (see 12.57pm) extended their recommendation for the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine to cover people aged over 65 after previously said lacked sufficient data, until recent studies.

Be funny if the political arse covering posturing didn't cost lives.

Let's hope the Italians actually use the Ox-AZ

[Fangle]

Out of curiosity, who was dpedin on PR? These new names confuse me.

[TheNatalShark]

No interested in one upmanship at all. But the long term implications of this are disturbing for everyone, and have not been thought through by the EU. Supply chains for most drugs and especially these modern vaccines are long and complex, passing through many different jurisdictions. It's virtually impossible to point at a single country/location and say that that vaccine was manufactured in country X/Y/Z. This kind of action leaves them wide open to retaliation in all sorts of places that on the surface they believe they are secure.

The matter in Italy is a clear example of fresh Draghi trying to stamp in some authority and drum up support, the EC appear to be distancing themselves although it's acknowledged they could have vetoed the national restrictions. I suspect his calc of long term investment affects are miniscule to immediate need of a functioning government this may enable.

Though the nationalism hasn't started here, that it is significantly more public and transparent than existing moves in the UK/US (abetted by very willing international press to stick boot in) means yes it simply has to have market ramifications - but I'm not so certain it will be exodus from the continent, as it would be folly for companies to look elsewhere and proclaim a new base is in a guaranteed bastion of free trade.

Seems over a third of EU produced vaccines have been exported, I worry that this will be treated as a water tester by the EC and further clampdowns on the Pfizer production will result.

I'd love to be a fly on the boardroom when AZ arranged this batch export, as it has undoubtedly happened after the January kerfuffle.

That said it really would be an incredible opportunity for Bojo to request diversion of even a small amount of supplies. There are some guaranteed poll percentage points in there.

[TheNatalShark]

In other news France is going to stop taking the weekends off and vaccinate during them given even the weak supply is currently outstripping ability to administer.

[Lobby]

That's pretty much ended any long term pharma investment in Italy then

It's incredibly sad they are interfering with the free market, they should allow the exports unfettered, like the UK

It would be great if we could indulge in meaningful one-upmanship here. Few things would get the rabble rousing better than the British cavalry coming to Aussie aid after those dirty Europeans engage in such selfish action.

No interested in one upmanship at all. But the long term implications of this are disturbing for everyone, and have not been thought through by the EU. Supply chains for most drugs and especially these modern vaccines are long and complex, passing through many different jurisdictions. It's virtually impossible to point at a single country/location and say that that vaccine was manufactured in country X/Y/Z. This kind of action leaves them wide open to retaliation in all sorts of places that on the surface they believe they are secure.

The crazy thing is that, as of the end of last week, Italy had only used 20% of the AZ vaccines that have been provided to it thus far, so there is absolutely no benefit in it impounding 250,000 vaccines intended for Australia when it has a few million still unused.

[Sandstorm]

EU response to these vaccines has been shameful! If it was Trump or Putin, the whole world would be going ape-shit with rage.

[Saint]

No interested in one upmanship at all. But the long term implications of this are disturbing for everyone, and have not been thought through by the EU. Supply chains for most drugs and especially these modern vaccines are long and complex, passing through many different jurisdictions. It's virtually impossible to point at a single country/location and say that that vaccine was manufactured in country X/Y/Z. This kind of action leaves them wide open to retaliation in all sorts of places that on the surface they believe they are secure.

The matter in Italy is a clear example of fresh Draghi trying to stamp in some authority and drum up support, the EC appear to be distancing themselves although it's acknowledged they could have vetoed the national restrictions. I suspect his calc of long term investment affects are miniscule to immediate need of a functioning government this may enable.

Though the nationalism hasn't started here, that it is significantly more public and transparent than existing moves in the UK/US (abetted by very willing international press to stick boot in) means yes it simply has to have market ramifications - but I'm not so certain it will be exodus from the continent, as it would be folly for companies to look elsewhere and proclaim a new base is in a guaranteed bastion of free trade.

Seems over a third of EU produced vaccines have been exported, I worry that this will be treated as a water tester by the EC and further clampdowns on the Pfizer production will result.

I'd love to be a fly on the boardroom when AZ arranged this batch export, as it has undoubtedly happened after the January kerfuffle.

That said it really would be an incredible opportunity for Bojo to request diversion of even a small amount of supplies. There are some guaranteed poll percentage points in there.

There are some really problems with exporting AZ vaccibe from the UK

1 - what is really misunderstood is that almost all UK production is actually Government leased, subleased to AZ. The contracts for almost all UK supply chain predates AZ being involved in Oxford, which has effectively inherited the everything.

2- UK production is small. It's genuinely designed to meet UK requirements and not much more (see point 1). It's currently being rebuilt to increase output, so we have an internal short term shortfall, but the ability of UK vaccine manufacturing to significantly scale AZ is stupidly limited right now. There are other significant investments in Harwell and Braintree that will come onstream later this year that oukd change that, but right now it's a challenge.

EU manufacturing output for AZ, while underperforming EU expectations, already massively exceeds UK output

[Ovals]

EU response to these vaccines has been shameful! If it was Trump or Putin, the whole world would be going ape-shit with rage.

It has been a catalogue of incompetence and belligerence.

[TheNatalShark]

There are some really problems with exporting AZ vaccibe from the UK

1 - what is really misunderstood is that almost all UK production is actually Government leased, subleased to AZ. The contracts for almost all UK supply chain predates AZ being involved in Oxford, which has effectively inherited the everything.

2- UK production is small. It's genuinely designed to meet UK requirements and not much more (see point 1). It's currently being rebuilt to increase output, so we have an internal short term shortfall, but the ability of UK vaccine manufacturing to significantly scale AZ is stupidly limited right now. There are other significant investments in Harwell and Braintree that will come onstream later this year that oukd change that, but right now it's a challenge.

EU manufacturing output for AZ, while underperforming EU expectations, already massively exceeds UK output

Argument from the other side is that pre-production state intervention has and can similarly interfere with potential for exports as post-production interference. Ie we know from the January fiasco that AZ indicated in some capacity it has/had/thought it had control of the outflow of production from UK sites, otherwise they would frankly not have been specifically referenced in sites that would not require pre-clearance from the EU to make-up continental shortfall. It would surely have been clear as day to AZ at the time that the site's wouldn't meet the complete orders for the UK in time and still include those sites in potential production plans for priority Q1/Q2 deliveries.

If it knew it had no control over the outflow, it would be absolutely bonkers to not state that in the EU contract, rather than have them listed as potential sites?

Invariably a shit situation all round. Wonder if in another world Oxford didn't care for developed world prices, and AZ had a nice profit incentive to deliver and out compete in Europe, that it remained the lead driver of many EU countries plans.

[TheNatalShark]

The crazy thing is that, as of the end of last week, Italy had only used 20% of the AZ vaccines that have been provided to it thus far, so there is absolutely no benefit in it impounding 250,000 vaccines intended for Australia when it has a few million still unused.

We can see the ineptitude in some of the domestic roll out plans here in a simple graph, after the AZ vaccine was distributed to local doctors and pharmacies in France on the 24th Feb for distribution, in the following two days they administered more jabs than the prior 3 weeks altogether.




In Italy there are regions which are maxing out their AZ utilisation (some of them reserve a second jab) and are asking for more, but because the regionalisation of the plans they can't (currently) shift supplies from those utterly failing to administer to those in need. Draghi has now ditched the previous co-ordinator now and thrown in an army type, hopefully heads are banged and supplies shifted.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ccinations

As before, come end of summer voters will likely shift (more) ire from the EC's lackadaisical involvement in supporting production to domestic politicians if they see the Nordics prancing around fully vaccinated.

[Insane_Homer]

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entr ... ssion=true

Test and Trace, the one that can't read a flight manifest and has to resort to using twitter to find Brazilians, will cost £37 Billion!!!!!!

[Flockwitt]

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entr ... ssion=true

Test and Trace, the one that can't read a flight manifest and has to resort to using twitter to find Brazilians, will cost £37 Billion!!!!!!

What the actual effen bleedin hell?!?!? You can put in how many full blown data centers for 1 billion pounds. Somebody doth take the piss.

[eldanielfire]

Meanwhile, in Europe over 80% of AZ vaccines doses delivered so far are sitting in Fridges unused as no-one wants them. In Germany alone there's 1.4 million unused doses.

What a complete, utter, total, fuck-up

That is a disgrace! Surely there are 1.4 million immigrants from outside the EU living in Germany who would jump at the chance to get one? Fuck the Krauts and their EU wankerdom.

After all the nonsense about suing AZ to get doses, or insisting on shipments come from the UK, it's a bit of a piss take really

And now preventing Australia getting theirs. Weren't the EU droning on about preventing Vaccine nationalism? The EU are making no friends and compounding their image of being complete nob ends who create their own problems.