Another mass shooting in the US

[Biffer]

The USA is now at the poi t where their children ha e to practice being hunted at school.

[Niegs]

We do active shooter drills in Canada too (have had a few roving killer incidents in the past decade, five in the last 20 years). There are enough hunting rifles about, the odd semi auto gun ... Dawson College shooter from 15 years ago had this legally registered gun:




No one needs that, but I come from a fairly rednecky family /region that would say it's a hobby, most people are responsible, yadda yadda, Liberal gov't wants to take our guns away so will never vote for them BS.

But a certain portion of our population have a copycat obsession with our neighbours, so better to be prepared for the hardly-likely. The drill I participated in was nerve-wracking as I kept thinking "What if..."

[inactionman]

I saw somewhere that the US Army’s new/replacement standard war-fighting rifle with it’s longer reach and bigger punch is already available in the stores in its “civilian” format.

Mental!!

They've needed to up-gun as the standard NATO rounds can't reliably penetrate body armour - including the larger 7.62.

To which I can only infer someone on the civilian sales side thought that obviously American citizens need guns that can penetrate military body armour. Or the walls of houses, if we fancy endangering everyone in any meaningful vicinity.

[tabascoboy]

Well you know, if the criminal drug-addled scum are coming at you with a Glock 19 best make sure all civvies have an AR-15 on standby

[Sinkers]

I see that some republican goon has amplified some4chan bollox that the shooter was a transsexual illegal alien.

Totally mental!!

[Hal Jordan]

Well you know, if the criminal drug-addled scum are coming at you with a Glock 19 best make sure all civvies have an AR-15 on standby

A good guy with an M2 Browning will stop a bad guy with an AR-15.

[Blackmac]

It's incredible that these lunatics are quite happy to have their schools looking like heavily fortified military bases rather than do anything about the situation.

[sockwithaticket]

They should release the crime scene photos. Those poor kids can't be identified by sight because of what an AR15 does to someone. Release the pictures, even the nutjobs can't see something like that and stay the course of the guns aren't the problem.

The gun lobby would just claim the images had been faked, like they tried to claim Sandyhook had been faked.

The fringe ones. But most senators and voters aren't the it's a conspiracy fringe.

The US is past statistics, it's passed common sense, it's used to X number of people died, it's even used to schools being shot up. Time to show what a school shooting looks like and if those pro gun can look at what an AR15 does to a child and sleep at night they're totally past humanity. I don't think they will though. I think people seeing the images is the only way to introduce legislation.

I think that's rather naive tbh.

[Guy Smiley]

It's incredible that these lunatics are quite happy to have their schools looking like heavily fortified military bases rather than do anything about the situation.

They have done something. They've fortified the schools.

Very broad stroke thinking here but the nation that shows a group mentality to Escalate... send more boys to Vietnam, send more guns to Afghanistan, send more of everything to Iraq hasn't made the connection between that and failing.

They're fucked. The mentality of the place isn't to not back down, it is to go harder.

[JM2K6]

The gun lobby would just claim the images had been faked, like they tried to claim Sandyhook had been faked.

The fringe ones. But most senators and voters aren't the it's a conspiracy fringe.

The US is past statistics, it's passed common sense, it's used to X number of people died, it's even used to schools being shot up. Time to show what a school shooting looks like and if those pro gun can look at what an AR15 does to a child and sleep at night they're totally past humanity. I don't think they will though. I think people seeing the images is the only way to introduce legislation.

I think that's rather naive tbh.

Showing it also increases the chance of copycats etc - it's counterproductive. But here's the thing: a slim majority of Americans want greater gun control. A large majority of Americans want access to abortion. The cunts in charge do not represent the people and have worked out that they don't actually need to do anything except keep raking in the money and power by kowtowing to the right groups.

[I like neeps]

The gun lobby would just claim the images had been faked, like they tried to claim Sandyhook had been faked.

The fringe ones. But most senators and voters aren't the it's a conspiracy fringe.

The US is past statistics, it's passed common sense, it's used to X number of people died, it's even used to schools being shot up. Time to show what a school shooting looks like and if those pro gun can look at what an AR15 does to a child and sleep at night they're totally past humanity. I don't think they will though. I think people seeing the images is the only way to introduce legislation.

I think that's rather naive tbh.

It's naive to show the same statistics and have the same quips and same arguments after every shooting and expect change as well. Nobody is convinced by things they've already heard. They might be convinced by seeing something they have never seen. Statistics aren't emotive, pictures are.

Not saying it'll work - but change isn't coming from logic.

[sockwithaticket]

The fringe ones. But most senators and voters aren't the it's a conspiracy fringe.

The US is past statistics, it's passed common sense, it's used to X number of people died, it's even used to schools being shot up. Time to show what a school shooting looks like and if those pro gun can look at what an AR15 does to a child and sleep at night they're totally past humanity. I don't think they will though. I think people seeing the images is the only way to introduce legislation.

I think that's rather naive tbh.

It's naive to show the same statistics and have the same quips and same arguments after every shooting and expect change as well. Nobody is convinced by things they've already heard. They might be convinced by seeing something they have never seen. Statistics aren't emotive, pictures are.

Not saying it'll work - but change isn't coming from logic.

Obviously current arguments don't work on the nutters, but I think you'll find the fervence of those in favour of unfettered gun access matches that of the MAGA cultists (the Venn diagram for the two is probably close to a perfect circle). Zealots can ignore a lot. Those with the emotional capacity to be shaken by gruesome imagery probably aren't on their side to begin with.

[I like neeps]

I think that's rather naive tbh.

It's naive to show the same statistics and have the same quips and same arguments after every shooting and expect change as well. Nobody is convinced by things they've already heard. They might be convinced by seeing something they have never seen. Statistics aren't emotive, pictures are.

Not saying it'll work - but change isn't coming from logic.

Obviously current arguments don't work on the nutters, but I think you'll find the fervence of those in favour of unfettered gun access matches that of the MAGA cultists (the Venn diagram for the two is probably close to a perfect circle). Zealots can ignore a lot. Those with the emotional capacity to be shaken by gruesome imagery probably aren't on their side to begin with.

I think the problem is as much the Republican senators/governers etc in the pocket of the NRA as it is MAGA cultists. Majority of Americans actually support legislation on background checks etc. I don't think elected officials will be able to look at the damage these guns are doing to kids and continue to obstruct bills.

[Hugo]

I saw somewhere that the US Army’s new/replacement standard war-fighting rifle with it’s longer reach and bigger punch is already available in the stores in its “civilian” format.

Mental!!

It feels like the gun lobby is an appendage to the military industrial complex.

[Kawazaki]

It's naive to show the same statistics and have the same quips and same arguments after every shooting and expect change as well. Nobody is convinced by things they've already heard. They might be convinced by seeing something they have never seen. Statistics aren't emotive, pictures are.

Not saying it'll work - but change isn't coming from logic.

I don't think anyone from any side is expecting change.

Let's face it, if Sandy Hook did nothing then nothing will. And guess what, in 2012 when Sandy Hook happened there were 310 million guns in civilian circulation in the USA. In 2022, there are 393 million guns in civilian circulation in the USA, an increase of 27%.

[sockwithaticket]

It's naive to show the same statistics and have the same quips and same arguments after every shooting and expect change as well. Nobody is convinced by things they've already heard. They might be convinced by seeing something they have never seen. Statistics aren't emotive, pictures are.

Not saying it'll work - but change isn't coming from logic.

Obviously current arguments don't work on the nutters, but I think you'll find the fervence of those in favour of unfettered gun access matches that of the MAGA cultists (the Venn diagram for the two is probably close to a perfect circle). Zealots can ignore a lot. Those with the emotional capacity to be shaken by gruesome imagery probably aren't on their side to begin with.

I think the problem is as much the Republican senators/governers etc in the pocket of the NRA as it is MAGA cultists. Majority of Americans actually support legislation on background checks etc. I don't think elected officials will be able to look at the damage these guns are doing to kids and continue to obstruct bills.

Appealing to the better nature of Republican senators is even more unlikely I suspect.

Background checks is a baby step around which many of the public can congregate the more significant changes that might actually put a dent in the slaughter are far more likely to see drops in support from those on the right , perhaps even the libertarian leaning left:
- price hikes on ammunition
- limiting magazine capacity
- limiting the amount of ammunition someone can purchase/be in possession of at one time (putting in a nationwide database for that sort of thing is possible, but not probably I guess)
- prohibit the availability of certain weapons. No one needs a 50 slug drum mag semi-auto shotgun.
- mandatory training courses for gun purchasers
- mandatory re-licensing of gun owners every 12 months
- ban unscrutinsed private sales, only licensed vendors should be selling

The even tougher part is having uniform legislation across all states. As 2A activists are keen to point out, Chicago is subject to very strict gun controls (by current standards), yet has a massive problem. That's due to the laxity of neighbouring states.

[Slick]

The reality is there is absolutely nothing they can do now. It has gone too far.

The best we can do is to make sure the utter mentalness doesn’t break out of America, ensure that we never go down that route. They are fucked and frankly, fuck them

[ia801310]

How many more children need to die before US politicians do something. The UK is not perfect but they reacted when Dunblane and Hungerford happened and the UK was made a safer place.

The lax gun laws and lack of NHS are the 2 main reasons I would never want to live in the US.

[Gumboot]

The reality is there is absolutely nothing they can do now. It has gone too far.

The best we can do is to make sure the utter mentalness doesn’t break out of America, ensure that we never go down that route. They are fucked and frankly, fuck them

That horse has long since bolted...

American guns are flooding into Mexico and wreaking havoc

Even as Republican members of Congress accuse Joe Biden of failing to secure the nation’s southern border, Mexico is facing a growing problem of securing its northern border. Guns from the United States are pouring into Mexico, arming violent drug gangs...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... al-weapons

[Hugo]

The reality is there is absolutely nothing they can do now. It has gone too far.

The best we can do is to make sure the utter mentalness doesn’t break out of America, ensure that we never go down that route. They are fucked and frankly, fuck them

That horse has long since bolted...

American guns are flooding into Mexico and wreaking havoc

Even as Republican members of Congress accuse Joe Biden of failing to secure the nation’s southern border, Mexico is facing a growing problem of securing its northern border. Guns from the United States are pouring into Mexico, arming violent drug gangs...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... al-weapons

On that note, recently read a book on the narcos by the El Paso border - Cuidad Juarez. The thesis was that neoliberalism/NAFTA just destroyed Mexico.

[Niegs]

Ultrasound wand up the ass for all wannabe gun owners!

[Fonz]

The reality is there is absolutely nothing they can do now. It has gone too far.

This is really all that needs to be said.

[Blackmac]

It's horrible that every time some piece of shit from the NRA comes out to defend this shit, you desperately want their kid or grand kids to be next.

[Blackmac]

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/n ... 90529.html

I think what we can take from the police response here, and its not the first time they have scratched their arses when bullets have been flying about, that you have to.reach a critical mass of people armed as a percentage will be too afraid to act. That increases in conservative areas as they are well known pussies. I think if you groomed, in a good way, a selection of students and armed them you would have crack troops inside the school. You have to start thinking outside the box

US cops not so good at shooting people who can actually shoot back.

[Gumboot]

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/n ... 90529.html

I think what we can take from the police response here, and its not the first time they have scratched their arses when bullets have been flying about, that you have to.reach a critical mass of people armed as a percentage will be too afraid to act. That increases in conservative areas as they are well known pussies. I think if you groomed, in a good way, a selection of students and armed them you would have crack troops inside the school. You have to start thinking outside the box

US cops not so good at shooting people who can actually shoot back.

So much for the "good guy with a gun" defence.

[Rinkals]

The reality is there is absolutely nothing they can do now. It has gone too far.

This is really all that needs to be said.

I was watching Beto O'Rouke get shouted down and dragged out of the hall for "politicising the situation".

If you can't speak about the damage that profligate gun ownership does now, when can you speak about it?

[robmatic]

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/n ... 90529.html

I think what we can take from the police response here, and its not the first time they have scratched their arses when bullets have been flying about, that you have to.reach a critical mass of people armed as a percentage will be too afraid to act. That increases in conservative areas as they are well known pussies. I think if you groomed, in a good way, a selection of students and armed them you would have crack troops inside the school. You have to start thinking outside the box

US cops not so good at shooting people who can actually shoot back.

This little town has a fully kitted out SWAT team who did nothing.

[Tichtheid]

The reality is there is absolutely nothing they can do now. It has gone too far.

This is really all that needs to be said.

I was watching Beto O'Rouke get shouted down and dragged out of the hall for "politicising the situation".

If you can't speak about the damage that profligate gun ownership does now, when can you speak about it?

There was a Texan Republican governor on R4 this morning toeing the “blame the shooter not the gun” line.

It was a bit frustrating that the interviewer didn’t ask the follow up, “Are you saying Americans are inherently more murderously violent than citizens of other countries?”

A horrible stat that came out of that article is that if a child or teenager dies in the US, the cause is most likely to be gun violence.

[sockwithaticket]

The reality is there is absolutely nothing they can do now. It has gone too far.

This is really all that needs to be said.

I was watching Beto O'Rouke get shouted down and dragged out of the hall for "politicising the situation".

If you can't speak about the damage that profligate gun ownership does now, when can you speak about it?

Standard approach from the scum at this point. That line is now as predictable as 'thoughts and prayers' Of course they don't want anyone to think for a moment about the politics of it, because then it may become apparent which party is up to its eyeballs in NRA money and thinks dead kids are a fair price for personal enrichment.

[Torquemada 1420]

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/n ... 90529.html

I think what we can take from the police response here, and its not the first time they have scratched their arses when bullets have been flying about, that you have to.reach a critical mass of people armed as a percentage will be too afraid to act. That increases in conservative areas as they are well known pussies. I think if you groomed, in a good way, a selection of students and armed them you would have crack troops inside the school. You have to start thinking outside the box

US cops not so good at shooting people who can actually shoot back.

Great at shooting unarmed blacks or themselves in the feet though.

[Torquemada 1420]

A horrible stat that came out of that article is that if a child or teenager dies in the US, the cause is most likely to be gun violence.

Yes. See above ^^^^

More teenagers now die in the US from guns than from road accidents

[I like neeps]

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/n ... 90529.html

I think what we can take from the police response here, and its not the first time they have scratched their arses when bullets have been flying about, that you have to.reach a critical mass of people armed as a percentage will be too afraid to act. That increases in conservative areas as they are well known pussies. I think if you groomed, in a good way, a selection of students and armed them you would have crack troops inside the school. You have to start thinking outside the box

There is no good way to groom children to form a militia in a school. That's going to be emotionally very damaging.

Cops are pussies but they're also just people. They don't want to be shot at by someone with an AR-15.

[sockwithaticket]

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/n ... 90529.html

I think what we can take from the police response here, and its not the first time they have scratched their arses when bullets have been flying about, that you have to.reach a critical mass of people armed as a percentage will be too afraid to act. That increases in conservative areas as they are well known pussies. I think if you groomed, in a good way, a selection of students and armed them you would have crack troops inside the school. You have to start thinking outside the box

There is no good way to groom children to form a militia in a school. That's going to be emotionally very damaging.

Cops are pussies but they're also just people. They don't want to be shot at by someone with an AR-15.

Then don't become a cop in America. In a country awash with weapons and violent incidents there's a non-negligible chance to end up in that situation whether or not you chose to be.

They're ok though because the Supreme Court ruled a while back that serve and protect is just a slogan, cops don't actually have any obligation to protect citizens. Which begs the questions what are they actually for and why show up to these incidents if not to help?

[I like neeps]

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/n ... 90529.html

I think what we can take from the police response here, and its not the first time they have scratched their arses when bullets have been flying about, that you have to.reach a critical mass of people armed as a percentage will be too afraid to act. That increases in conservative areas as they are well known pussies. I think if you groomed, in a good way, a selection of students and armed them you would have crack troops inside the school. You have to start thinking outside the box

There is no good way to groom children to form a militia in a school. That's going to be emotionally very damaging.

Cops are pussies but they're also just people. They don't want to be shot at by someone with an AR-15.

Then don't become a cop in America. In a country awash with weapons and violent incidents there's a non-negligible chance to end up in that situation whether or not you chose to be.

They're ok though because the Supreme Court ruled a while back that serve and protect is just a slogan, cops don't actually have any obligation to protect citizens. Which begs the questions what are they actually for and why show up to these incidents if not to help?

Sure but that's unrealistic isn't it? You won't get many recruits if you're going one on one with rampaging men with an AR-15 and you're armed with a handgun.

[sockwithaticket]

There is no good way to groom children to form a militia in a school. That's going to be emotionally very damaging.

Cops are pussies but they're also just people. They don't want to be shot at by someone with an AR-15.

Then don't become a cop in America. In a country awash with weapons and violent incidents there's a non-negligible chance to end up in that situation whether or not you chose to be.

They're ok though because the Supreme Court ruled a while back that serve and protect is just a slogan, cops don't actually have any obligation to protect citizens. Which begs the questions what are they actually for and why show up to these incidents if not to help?

Sure but that's unrealistic isn't it? You won't get many recruits if you're going one on one with rampaging men with an AR-15 and you're armed with a handgun.

Maybe not hiring people who won't try and stop someone who's shooting kids is what the police should be doing over there? Their society has a particular set of circumstances which means their law enforcement need to be willing to stand up to an active shooter. Not every state has a border patrol who can swing in and take care of things if the police are too scared.

Most cops have some kind of rifle and a shotgun in their squad car, so there's no need to go in with just the pistol. It's going to be very rare that they're 1 v 1, they'll typically have a partner.

[weegie01]

Then don't become a cop in America. In a country awash with weapons and violent incidents there's a non-negligible chance to end up in that situation whether or not you chose to be.

They're ok though because the Supreme Court ruled a while back that serve and protect is just a slogan, cops don't actually have any obligation to protect citizens. Which begs the questions what are they actually for and why show up to these incidents if not to help?

Sure but that's unrealistic isn't it? You won't get many recruits if you're going one on one with rampaging men with an AR-15 and you're armed with a handgun.

Maybe not hiring people who won't try and stop someone who's shooting kids is what the police should be doing over there? Their society has a particular set of circumstances which means their law enforcement need to be willing to stand up to an active shooter. Not every state has a border patrol who can swing in and take care of things if the police are too scared.

Most cops have some kind of rifle and a shotgun in their squad car, so there's no need to go in with just the pistol. It's going to be very rare that they're 1 v 1, they'll typically have a partner.

Without going into details, my father was a failure as a parent and as a human being. An all round thoroughly unpleasant human being.

He was also a Scottish policeman. There is no doubt that we are talking different worlds, but despite my loathing of him, one thing I am sure about is that if it was a question of him, or his colleagues, putting their lives at risk to stop children dying, they would have done something.

[Kawazaki]

It's horrible that every time some piece of shit from the NRA comes out to defend this shit, you desperately want their kid or grand kids to be next.

The chances are very high that some or all of the parents of the children killed are gun owners and keen advocates of the 2nd Amendment. You know the type, they're Texans.

[sockwithaticket]

Sure but that's unrealistic isn't it? You won't get many recruits if you're going one on one with rampaging men with an AR-15 and you're armed with a handgun.

Maybe not hiring people who won't try and stop someone who's shooting kids is what the police should be doing over there? Their society has a particular set of circumstances which means their law enforcement need to be willing to stand up to an active shooter. Not every state has a border patrol who can swing in and take care of things if the police are too scared.

Most cops have some kind of rifle and a shotgun in their squad car, so there's no need to go in with just the pistol. It's going to be very rare that they're 1 v 1, they'll typically have a partner.

Without going into details, my father was a failure as a parent and as a human being. An all round thoroughly unpleasant human being.

He was also a Scottish policeman. There is no doubt that we are talking different worlds, but despite my loathing of him, one thing I am sure about is that if it was a question of him, or his colleagues, putting their lives at risk to stop children dying, they would have done something.

Sorry about your dad.

That's the point really, there a certain character qualities that should be a requirement for jobs like police officer and one of those surely has to be a willingness to assist vulnerable members of the public even at personal safety risk. It's fine if a person isn't cut out for that, but that also means they can't do the job.

[sockwithaticket]

It's horrible that every time some piece of shit from the NRA comes out to defend this shit, you desperately want their kid or grand kids to be next.

The chances are very high that some or all of the parents of the children killed are gun owners and keen advocates of the 2nd Amendment. You know the type, they're Texans.

Saw on reddit that people have already found one grieving father who was posting pro-Kyle Rittenhouse and other second amendment stuff in the recent past.

I keep seeing people say that Beto O'Rourke's campaign for Texas governor was dead in the water before this due to his stance on guns (mandatory background checks, safe storage, etc. basic stuff that sane people think makes sense) and that openly talking about such measures in the wake of this incident will kill his bid all over again rather than revive it. Texas

[Rinkals]

It's horrible that every time some piece of shit from the NRA comes out to defend this shit, you desperately want their kid or grand kids to be next.

The chances are very high that some or all of the parents of the children killed are gun owners and keen advocates of the 2nd Amendment. You know the type, they're Texans.

Saw on reddit that people have already found one grieving father who was posting pro-Kyle Rittenhouse and other second amendment stuff in the recent past.

I keep seeing people say that Beto O'Rourke's campaign for Texas governor was dead in the water before this due to his stance on guns (mandatory background checks, safe storage, etc. basic stuff that sane people think makes sense) and that openly talking about such measures in the wake of this incident will kill his bid all over again rather than revive it. Texas

I would like to be proved wrong, but I can't see him getting within touching distance of Abbott. It was the one issue that made his candidature for the 'Dem nomination a complete non-starter, but in Texas, he's even at more of a disadvantage.