NPR

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:35 am Du Toit is a lock in for squad, but has been used mostly on the bench, because he can play both sides it adds some versatility, playing him at tighthead (his worse side) means they can pick another player at loosehead, like in this test.

Just remembered Nyakane can also play both sides, Du Toit getting the start on the tougher side (tighthead) probably means they rate him ahead of Nyakane.

Both will probably go to the RWC. Much easier if there's squad props covering both sides and there's an injury, the new player doesn't need to be brought up to speed and dropped into a test. Tightheads this order: Malherbe/Koch/Du Toit, looseheads this order: Kitshoff/Ox/Nyakane.

If they go with 5 props, then Du Toit/Ox/Nyakane are fighting for a place. I wouldn't be dropping Du Toit out of those three.

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:59 am Sous is a senior bok and Reinach is close enough to the coalface. I doubt I'll make them captain in a WC match but I doubt they'll be any worse than Bongi.

Bongi over both of those. I've always rated Reinach, but I've never thought "this player is captaincy material" I've thought basically the opposite. Mostert is credible, but he's quiet/shy, Fourie du Preez was similar senior player/intelligent enough/respected, but not much of a communicator so never got many caps as captain (only at the 2015 RWC after Jean and Matfield broke).

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:59 am

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:35 am Du Toit is a lock in for squad, but has been used mostly on the bench, because he can play both sides it adds some versatility, playing him at tighthead (his worse side) means they can pick another player at loosehead, like in this test.

Just remembered Nyakane can also play both sides, Du Toit getting the start on the tougher side (tighthead) probably means they rate him ahead of Nyakane.

Both will probably go to the RWC. Much easier if there's squad props covering both sides and there's an injury, the new player doesn't need to be brought up to speed and dropped into a test. Tightheads this order: Malherbe/Koch/Du Toit, looseheads this order: Kitshoff/Ox/Nyakane.

If they go with 5 props, then Du Toit/Ox/Nyakane are fighting for a place. I wouldn't be dropping Du Toit out of those three.

I agree, you wouldn't. Thing is, he does nothing for the numbers and that is a major factor in picking a South African team. Trevor is just as capable as du Toit, I believe he has more caps too and the added bonus of being a black African.

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:15 pm

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:59 am

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:35 am Du Toit is a lock in for squad, but has been used mostly on the bench, because he can play both sides it adds some versatility, playing him at tighthead (his worse side) means they can pick another player at loosehead, like in this test.

Just remembered Nyakane can also play both sides, Du Toit getting the start on the tougher side (tighthead) probably means they rate him ahead of Nyakane.

Both will probably go to the RWC. Much easier if there's squad props covering both sides and there's an injury, the new player doesn't need to be brought up to speed and dropped into a test. Tightheads this order: Malherbe/Koch/Du Toit, looseheads this order: Kitshoff/Ox/Nyakane.

If they go with 5 props, then Du Toit/Ox/ are fighting for a place. I wouldn't be dropping Du Toit out of those three.

I agree, you wouldn't. Thing is, he does nothing for the numbers and that is a major factor in picking a South African team. Trevor is just as capable as du Toit, I believe he has more caps too and the added bonus of being a black African.

Nyakane is 6 years older than Du Toit and has been around the Bok squad since 2013, of course he has more caps! Du Toit has only been capped under Rassie/Nienaber, who have selected him as much as they have Nyakane. He's not clearly behind Nyakane at all, he was in 2019 when he was a injury replacement for Nyakane but a fair bit has changed since. If it's about numbers then the first number is how many props they take, it's been as low as 4 recently (in 2011), but is usually 5 in recent times. Given how many tough matches there's going to be they may opt to take more forwards and rely more on replacing injuries in the backs as they happen. The second number is the race number but that's over the XV/23/squad, the Boks took 4 specialists wings in the squad in 2007 and 2011 for a reason, who makes the squad elsewhere changes the numbers.

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:13 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:59 am Sous is a senior bok and Reinach is close enough to the coalface. I doubt I'll make them captain in a WC match but I doubt they'll be any worse than Bongi.

Bongi over both of those. I've always rated Reinach, but I've never thought "this player is captaincy material" I've thought basically the opposite. Mostert is credible, but he's quiet/shy, Fourie du Preez was similar senior player/intelligent enough/respected, but not much of a communicator so never got many caps as captain (only at the 2015 RWC after Jean and Matfield broke).

You are aware that the match official is a Georgian right? Doubt anyone in the Bok squad would be capable to communicate properly with him. Least of all Bongi.

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:42 pm
Nyakane is 6 years older than Du Toit and has been around the Bok squad since 2013, of course he has more caps! Du Toit has only been capped under Rassie/Nienaber, who have selected him as much as they have Nyakane. He's not clearly behind Nyakane at all, he was in 2019 when he was a injury replacement for Nyakane but a fair bit has changed since. If it's about numbers then the first number is how many props they take, it's been as low as 4 recently (in 2011), but is usually 5 in recent times. Given how many tough matches there's going to be they may opt to take more forwards and rely more on replacing injuries in the backs as they happen. The second number is the race number but that's over the XV/23/squad, the Boks took 4 specialists wings in the squad in 2007 and 2011 for a reason, who makes the squad elsewhere changes the numbers.

The transformation targets have changed over the years. Politicians won't be happy about a token "coloured" wing like a Pulse or Habana, or even two or three or five. Who in the extended squad, backs and forwards counts as black African? You have one outside back in Mapimpi and that's it for the backs. Your numbers have to come from the forwards.

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:55 pm You are aware that the match official is a Georgian right? Doubt anyone in the Bok squad would be capable to communicate properly with him. Least of all Bongi.

I am, he's reffed us twice before, the win against Wales at Loftus last year and the loss to Ireland last year. I don't buy the idea he's wondering onto the pitch with no English ability or means to communicate.

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:02 pm

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:42 pm
Nyakane is 6 years older than Du Toit and has been around the Bok squad since 2013, of course he has more caps! Du Toit has only been capped under Rassie/Nienaber, who have selected him as much as they have Nyakane. He's not clearly behind Nyakane at all, he was in 2019 when he was a injury replacement for Nyakane but a fair bit has changed since. If it's about numbers then the first number is how many props they take, it's been as low as 4 recently (in 2011), but is usually 5 in recent times. Given how many tough matches there's going to be they may opt to take more forwards and rely more on replacing injuries in the backs as they happen. The second number is the race number but that's over the XV/23/squad, the Boks took 4 specialists wings in the squad in 2007 and 2011 for a reason, who makes the squad elsewhere changes the numbers.

The transformation targets have changed over the years. Politicians won't be happy about a token "coloured" wing like a Pulse or Habana, or even two or three or five. Who in the extended squad, backs and forwards counts as black African? You have one outside back in Mapimpi and that's it for the backs. Your numbers have to come from the forwards.

The third number you need, is to be able to count the numbers. Am is an outside back and is "black African" in ANC speak, would be hard for him not to be being Xhosa.

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:26 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:02 pm

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:42 pm
Nyakane is 6 years older than Du Toit and has been around the Bok squad since 2013, of course he has more caps! Du Toit has only been capped under Rassie/Nienaber, who have selected him as much as they have Nyakane. He's not clearly behind Nyakane at all, he was in 2019 when he was a injury replacement for Nyakane but a fair bit has changed since. If it's about numbers then the first number is how many props they take, it's been as low as 4 recently (in 2011), but is usually 5 in recent times. Given how many tough matches there's going to be they may opt to take more forwards and rely more on replacing injuries in the backs as they happen. The second number is the race number but that's over the XV/23/squad, the Boks took 4 specialists wings in the squad in 2007 and 2011 for a reason, who makes the squad elsewhere changes the numbers.

The transformation targets have changed over the years. Politicians won't be happy about a token "coloured" wing like a Pulse or Habana, or even two or three or five. Who in the extended squad, backs and forwards counts as black African? You have one outside back in Mapimpi and that's it for the backs. Your numbers have to come from the forwards.

The third number you need, is to be able to count the numbers. Am is an outside back and is "black African" in ANC speak, would be hard for him not to be being Xhosa.

He's been so quiet lately I completely forgot about him. Still only two though.

Anyways.
https://www.msn.com/en-za/sports/other/ ... be8b&ei=12

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:16 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:55 pm You are aware that the match official is a Georgian right? Doubt anyone in the Bok squad would be capable to communicate properly with him. Least of all Bongi.

I am, he's reffed us twice before, the win against Wales at Loftus last year and the loss to Ireland last year. I don't buy the idea he's wondering onto the pitch with no English ability or means to communicate.

Doubt it's his first language and it's definitely not Bongi's first language.

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:32 pm

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:16 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:55 pm You are aware that the match official is a Georgian right? Doubt anyone in the Bok squad would be capable to communicate properly with him. Least of all Bongi.

I am, he's reffed us twice before, the win against Wales at Loftus last year and the loss to Ireland last year. I don't buy the idea he's wondering onto the pitch with no English ability or means to communicate.

Doubt it's his first language and it's definitely not Bongi's first language.

No one in the Bok XV is a first language English speaker.

Just spent some time on Youtube. Bongi's English is definitely more fluent than Mostert's. Fourie more fluent than both of them. Du Toit the best because he's been at the Sharks for years.

Du Toit goes to the RWC, not plattelander Nyakane. Du Toit for Bok captain, not plattelander Mostert. Mnr.Joe-Plattelander left crying.

It's 2023......I can't believe we are still judging others

A fine player, and president of NZ Rugby.

I remember him captaining the All Blacks to a 3-1 series win over the Lions in 1977.

RIP

The word 'legend' is thrown around too loosely sometimes... but it absolutely fits here.

One of the greats, a legend of our game. RIP.

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:30 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:32 pm

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:16 pm
I am, he's reffed us twice before, the win against Wales at Loftus last year and the loss to Ireland last year. I don't buy the idea he's wondering onto the pitch with no English ability or means to communicate.

Doubt it's his first language and it's definitely not Bongi's first language.

No one in the Bok XV is a first language English speaker.

Just spent some time on Youtube. Bongi's English is definitely more fluent than Mostert's. Fourie more fluent than both of them. Du Toit the best because he's been at the Sharks for years.

Du Toit goes to the RWC, not plattelander Nyakane. Du Toit for Bok captain, not plattelander Mostert. Mnr.Joe-Plattelander left crying.

Who I want to go and not to go is of no importance. I'm arguing facts with you Sir Ox.

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:30 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:32 pm

_Os_ wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:16 pm
I am, he's reffed us twice before, the win against Wales at Loftus last year and the loss to Ireland last year. I don't buy the idea he's wondering onto the pitch with no English ability or means to communicate.

Doubt it's his first language and it's definitely not Bongi's first language.

No one in the Bok XV is a first language English speaker.

Just spent some time on Youtube. Bongi's English is definitely more fluent than Mostert's. Fourie more fluent than both of them. Du Toit the best because he's been at the Sharks for years.

Du Toit goes to the RWC, not plattelander Nyakane. Du Toit for Bok captain, not plattelander Mostert. Mnr.Joe-Plattelander left crying.

du Toit will be upset if you dont call him a Plattelander. Sir Ox

It's about who is more selectable. Where they're from and who likes and dislikes them does not count.

Under Rassienaber (we don't care what happened in 2011 even though Sir Ox feels it's recent, it's 12 years ago and before Rassienaber) they normally pick 5 props. 4 specialised and one utility who can pack down both sides. The starting props and their replacements are settled. We are discussing the spare wheel.

Both Tomas and Trevor can pack down on loosehead and tighthead.
They are evenly capable.
Trevor plays for a top French side.
Tomas plays for the Natal Sharks.
Trevor is a black African
Tomas is whiter than wit honne kak.

Trevor goes, Tomas stays. The black bull Trevor for president. Sir Ox cries in his tee.

average joe wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:29 am It's about who is more selectable. Where they're from and who likes and dislikes them does not count.

Under Rassienaber (we don't care what happened in 2011 even though Sir Ox feels it's recent, it's 12 years ago and before Rassienaber) they normally pick 5 props. 4 specialised and one utility who can pack down both sides. The starting props and their replacements are settled. We are discussing the spare wheel.

Both Tomas and Trevor can pack down on loosehead and tighthead.
They are evenly capable.
Trevor plays for a top French side.
Tomas plays for the Natal Sharks.
Trevor is a black African
Tomas is whiter than wit honne kak.

Trevor goes, Tomas stays. The black bull Trevor for president. Sir Ox cries in his tee.

You are so correct in the political correctness. They obvious went for that. Lets hope Libbok have a very good test, it all depend on him. It will be sad if he dont make the WC cut.

They have little choice on Libbok. If Pollard breaks, there's no-one ells. Unless they go with playboy Junkies. My bet is they are crash coursing him to get him up to speed.

The way I see it these last few tests serve three purposes.

1. Locking in the last few spots.
2. Giving locked in players game time.
3. Testing different combinations and tactics.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 6:36 am du Toit will be upset if you dont call him a Plattelander. Sir Ox

Saying Cape Town/Paarl is the platteland, is like saying Table Mountain and the Hottentots Holland are the Himalayas. He's not a binnelander so doesn't count. I don't make the rules.

average joe wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:29 am It's about who is more selectable. Where they're from and who likes and dislikes them does not count.

Under Rassienaber (we don't care what happened in 2011 even though Sir Ox feels it's recent, it's 12 years ago and before Rassienaber) they normally pick 5 props. 4 specialised and one utility who can pack down both sides. The starting props and their replacements are settled. We are discussing the spare wheel.

Both Tomas and Trevor can pack down on loosehead and tighthead.
They are evenly capable.
Trevor plays for a top French side.
Tomas plays for the Natal Sharks.
Trevor is a black African
Tomas is whiter than wit honne kak.

Trevor goes, Tomas stays. The black bull Trevor for president. Sir Ox cries in his tee.

I'm led to believe this Ox you speak of doesn't drink tea, call anyone sir, or know anything about cricket.

You are now fired up about the 5th choice Bok prop, it's something you will now have an eye on when the team is announced. You should thank Ox for that.

What I want to know is AJ a plattelander or a binnelander? And is it fair to say that Ox is now a buitelander?

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:26 am What I want to know is AJ a plattelander or a binnelander?

I have checked the rules, they're the same thing unless someone is from Joburg or Pretoria.

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:26 am And is it fair to say that Ox is now a buitelander?

Last time people started throwing around the uitlander accusations a war started.

I hope we see a much better showing from the Boks. Players need to play for the team and not for individual glory or a RWC spot. Do your job and the rest will take care of itself.

handyman wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:26 am I hope we see a much better showing from the Boks. Players need to play for the team and not for individual glory or a RWC spot. Do your job and the rest will take care of itself.

So what you're saying is, it's a heavily rotated team they're all fighting for a RWC spot and we're going to lose. I agree.

_Os_ wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:20 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 6:36 am du Toit will be upset if you dont call him a Plattelander. Sir Ox

Saying Cape Town/Paarl is the platteland, is like saying Table Mountain and the Hottentots Holland are the Himalayas. He's not a binnelander so doesn't count. I don't make the rules.

average joe wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:29 am It's about who is more selectable. Where they're from and who likes and dislikes them does not count.

Under Rassienaber (we don't care what happened in 2011 even though Sir Ox feels it's recent, it's 12 years ago and before Rassienaber) they normally pick 5 props. 4 specialised and one utility who can pack down both sides. The starting props and their replacements are settled. We are discussing the spare wheel.

Both Tomas and Trevor can pack down on loosehead and tighthead.
They are evenly capable.
Trevor plays for a top French side.
Tomas plays for the Natal Sharks.
Trevor is a black African
Tomas is whiter than wit honne kak.

Trevor goes, Tomas stays. The black bull Trevor for president. Sir Ox cries in his tee.

I'm led to believe this Ox you speak of doesn't drink tea, call anyone sir, or know anything about cricket.

You are now fired up about the 5th choice Bok prop, it's something you will now have an eye on when the team is announced. You should thank Ox for that.

The only thing that fires up a plattelander is a tight tannie in stywe jean pants en n boobtube. And I have my nickerball oe on everything all the time. I might be a plattelander but I don't live under a stone Sir Ox.

_Os_ wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:20 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 6:36 am du Toit will be upset if you dont call him a Plattelander. Sir Ox

Saying Cape Town/Paarl is the platteland, is like saying Table Mountain and the Hottentots Holland are the Himalayas. He's not a binnelander so doesn't count. I don't make the rules.

Paarl is platteland like Maritzburg.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:44 pm

_Os_ wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:20 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 6:36 am du Toit will be upset if you dont call him a Plattelander. Sir Ox

Saying Cape Town/Paarl is the platteland, is like saying Table Mountain and the Hottentots Holland are the Himalayas. He's not a binnelander so doesn't count. I don't make the rules.

Paarl is platteland like Maritzburg.

I think there's some lost in translation happening here. It's about an hour from Howick to Durban down the N3 most of that is built up, there's a gap between Hillcrest and PMB, but none of it is really the middle of nowhere. Some of the Os clan farm in PMB, if an Afrikaner said they were plattelanders they maybe wouldn't say anything, if I said that they would laugh and correct me saying they're Natal Midlands farmers or something like that. It's much more likely Zulu words will be used than Afrikaans words, because no one speaks Afrikaans. For Natalians (""Sir Ox" etc), platteland means somewhere remote inland, everyone is wearing two tone shirts (even the women and children), no one speaks English, there's some crazy incomprehensible crimes going on like AJ getting burned out of his home. A scary place populated by hard men. Not Paarl yuppies sipping on their larney wine.

Now that I've mentioned it, are you fully back on your feet AJ? Living in town? I hope things have improved.

I'm strangely nervous about Bled II. Excited about seeing Stevenson, Finau and McLeod make their debuts, but for some reason it just has the feel of a Queensland sized banana skin to me.

And when have we ever seen four consistently good performances on the bounce from a Foster coached side? Just trying to comprehend such an occurrence makes my brain hurt.

On the bright side, it's great to see an ABs pack with 4 Chiefs starting and another 2 on the bench.

Gumboot wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:01 pm I'm strangely nervous about Bled II. Excited about seeing Stevenson, Finau and McLeod make their debuts, but for some reason it just has the feel of a Queensland sized banana skin to me.

And when have we ever seen four consistently good performances on the bounce from a Foster coached side? Just trying to comprehend such an occurrence makes my brain hurt.

Just tell yourself that Foster is safely locked away all week while Schmidt and Ryan run things... and the brain hurts a little less...

I'm optimistic because finally the All Blacks now play like they are following a coherent game plan... they've become the antithesis of Foster-off-the-cuff footy... and hopefully this means, you can change the personnel, but the song remains the same...

Gumboot wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:01 pm I'm strangely nervous about Bled II. Excited about seeing Stevenson, Finau and McLeod make their debuts, but for some reason it just has the feel of a Queensland sized banana skin to me.

And when have we ever seen four consistently good performances on the bounce from a Foster coached side? Just trying to comprehend such an occurrence makes my brain hurt.

While I share the mild apprehension, I think there’s enough class in this AB team to carry the determination of the new guys to make the most of this last chance before the RWC and prove themselves worthy. As for Fozzie…. in the immortal words of our workshop leading hand regarding life in general, you can’t decunt a cunt. There’s a systematic hardness to the way they’ve played this year that suggests Schmidt and Ryan is an excellent name for a handgun maker and someone is holding the product to his head, saying one false move, Twitchy….

Last home test of the year.

Last home game for a host of great players - Whitelock, Retallick, Smith, Coles...

Last chance for some younger fringe players to nail a RWC spot.

So plenty to play for...

Go, All Blacks!

Classic Crusader maul defense against a 5m lineout maul.

Good play from the Wobs. Kept possession and made it pay.

Holy shit. That was just power all over the park

What the hell is going on here

Stevenson making Clarke look like a defensive rock.

DMac looking like a decent Super rugby player.

Wobblies are gonna run out of front-rowers soon.

Commentators motor mouthing over some interesting chat between ref and front rowers.