NPR

Yeeb wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:32 pm Bad things happening in toti guys :(
Lots of people killed at a roadblock they tried to pass through whilst claiming they just wanted food - but the tellies in the cars gave the game away. FiL has barricaded himself in the house, not much else they can do right now. No army around, just a few cops, local security and citizen militia on the ground.

Rinkals wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:52 am Farmers group asking for volunteers for roadblocks here, I think they want people with firearms, but I've put my name forward.

I'm not altogether happy about having armed vigilantes, but, if it's in support of and in cooperation with the cops, then it must be done.

Sards wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:05 pm Which brought us to the next conversation at home.
My wife has been asking me to show her how to use the guns.
This resulted in me finally conceding tonight and showing her and my 13 year old how to handle and take apart and load the gun. At first it was fun for my 13 year old until it came to the business end. Where and how to shoot. I told him straight for the face. With the shattering air gun pellets it will not penetrate the skull but will do serious damage to the eyes etc. Enough to stop any attacker. Mind you anywhere on the body will be very painful. At this point he got all teary. It was the thought of hurting another human being. I understand some might feel that it is maybe too young to educate him, but if I am not there he is the man of the house. He is my last option to protect my family. Of course this can apply to any situation like a house break in or whatever. Our top floor is sealed by a sturdy gate on the stairs with a very strong lock. And padlock. Without a grinder you are not getting in. This is our safe space and we went through the procedure in getting there and securing the gate.
It is very sad that we have to steal our children's innocence with this nonsense but there really is no alternative. After living my mates drama this morning and feeling his anguish in protecting his family I woke up to reality

spike2 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:12 pm

Chilli wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:41 pm They have got into the Distel Warehouse in Deben and set the main Warehouse in Stellenbosch.
Set both alight.
So after lovkdown expect a shortage of booze and a price increase.

Stellenbosch hasn't been touched.

Rinkals wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:52 am Farmers group asking for volunteers for roadblocks here, I think they want people with firearms, but I've put my name forward.

I'm not altogether happy about having armed vigilantes, but, if it's in support of and in cooperation with the cops, then it must be done.

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:35 am The idea of vigilante groups doing roadblocks concerns me. Especially when it's most likely to be armed by whites and they're stopping blacks. Last thing we need is a race war.

There was a story circulating on Twitter about a shop only allowing whites in to buy essential goods. Their rationale was that there are no whites looting. They're probably right, but, eish.

Chilli wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:31 am

spike2 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:12 pm

Chilli wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:41 pm They have got into the Distel Warehouse in Deben and set the main Warehouse in Stellenbosch.
Set both alight.
So after lovkdown expect a shortage of booze and a price increase.

Stellenbosch hasn't been touched.

I stand corrected.

Blake wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:07 pm

Sards wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:05 pm I understand some might feel that it is maybe too young to educate him, but if I am not there he is the man of the house. He is my last option to protect my family. Of course this can apply to any situation like a house break in or whatever. Our top floor is sealed by a sturdy gate on the stairs with a very strong lock. And padlock. Without a grinder you are not getting in. This is our safe space and we went through the procedure in getting there and securing the gate.
It is very sad that we have to steal our children's innocence with this nonsense but there really is no alternative. After living my mates drama this morning and feeling his anguish in protecting his family I woke up to reality

13 isn’t too young ffs. If he is thought well and can handle a firearm responsibility, 13 is fine.

My old man taught me to shoot a pistol at and .22 at 11 and at 13 our scout troop went to a rifle range to shoot R4’s.

Your kid will be fine.

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:03 am

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:35 am The idea of vigilante groups doing roadblocks concerns me. Especially when it's most likely to be armed by whites and they're stopping blacks. Last thing we need is a race war.

There was a story circulating on Twitter about a shop only allowing whites in to buy essential goods. Their rationale was that there are no whites looting. They're probably right, but, eish.

I am seeing some positive and hopeful news and social media snippets. Communities defending and resisting. All races.

The important thing now is for the good guys to take the initiative. Arrest the perps, truck in emergency supplies under SANDF guard to the affected communities. The bad guys are trying to pin this on the Ramaphosa government. Ramaphosa and co need to use spin this heavily. Get the support of the Zulu king and prominent Zulu community figures.

At the beginning of lockdown there was a great deal of concern for the very poor and lots of initiatives to help. The momentum died quite rapidly. Even though a lot of the looting was just opportunistic greed, we can't ignore the privation that fueled the flames. It's important that the very poor get help asap.

Also I can't help thinking that the liquor ban plays a bigger role in this than we think. There are hundreds of thousands of literal alcohol addicts in this country. Cold turkey is going to play havoc with them. I think the liquor stashes dried up and a lot of people got desperate. Booze is the only escape for the poor. A cold hungry winter without a dop to look forward to has certainly contributed hugely to this.

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:35 am The idea of vigilante groups doing roadblocks concerns me. Especially when it's most likely to be armed by whites and they're stopping blacks. Last thing we need is a race war.

There was a story circulating on Twitter about a shop only allowing whites in to buy essential goods. Their rationale was that there are no whites looting. They're probably right, but, eish.

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:16 am

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:03 am

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:35 am The idea of vigilante groups doing roadblocks concerns me. Especially when it's most likely to be armed by whites and they're stopping blacks. Last thing we need is a race war.

There was a story circulating on Twitter about a shop only allowing whites in to buy essential goods. Their rationale was that there are no whites looting. They're probably right, but, eish.

I am seeing some positive and hopeful news and social media snippets. Communities defending and resisting. All races.

The important thing now is for the good guys to take the initiative. Arrest the perps, truck in emergency supplies under SANDF guard to the affected communities. The bad guys are trying to pin this on the Ramaphosa government. Ramaphosa and co need to use spin this heavily. Get the support of the Zulu king and prominent Zulu community figures.

At the beginning of lockdown there was a great deal of concern for the very poor and lots of initiatives to help. The momentum died quite rapidly. Even though a lot of the looting was just opportunistic greed, we can't ignore the privation that fueled the flames. It's important that the very poor get help asap.

Also I can't help thinking that the liquor ban plays a bigger role in this than we think. There are hundreds of thousands of literal alcohol addicts in this country. Cold turkey is going to play havoc with them. I think the liquor stashes dried up and a lot of people got desperate. Booze is the only escape for the poor. A cold hungry winter without a dop to look forward to has certainly contributed hugely to this.

The Zulu monarch is not what it us to be. After the death of old Goodwill the family has been fighting over the crown. Not everyone respects the new king.

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:03 am
The important thing now is for the good guys to take the initiative. Arrest the perps, truck in emergency supplies under SANDF guard to the affected communities. The bad guys are trying to pin this on the Ramaphosa government. Ramaphosa and co need to use spin this heavily. Get the support of the Zulu king and prominent Zulu community figures.

At the beginning of lockdown there was a great deal of concern for the very poor and lots of initiatives to help. The momentum died quite rapidly. Even though a lot of the looting was just opportunistic greed, we can't ignore the privation that fueled the flames. It's important that the very poor get help asap.

Also I can't help thinking that the liquor ban plays a bigger role in this than we think. There are hundreds of thousands of literal alcohol addicts in this country. Cold turkey is going to play havoc with them. I think the liquor stashes dried up and a lot of people got desperate. Booze is the only escape for the poor. A cold hungry winter without a dop to look forward to has certainly contributed hugely to this.

Let’s be very clear: what we’re experiencing isn’t about Jacob Zuma, inequality and poverty, or a lack of vaccines. While those things may have contributed to the overall power vacuum, they’re symptoms, not causes. That all of this started in KwaZulu-Natal isn’t a surprise either: weak political leadership, confusion in the Zulu royal family and an overpopulated province of young people with no reason to wake up every day, no sense of purpose or hope, this was inevitable.

Sards wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:15 am

Blake wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:07 pm

Sards wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:05 pm I understand some might feel that it is maybe too young to educate him, but if I am not there he is the man of the house. He is my last option to protect my family. Of course this can apply to any situation like a house break in or whatever. Our top floor is sealed by a sturdy gate on the stairs with a very strong lock. And padlock. Without a grinder you are not getting in. This is our safe space and we went through the procedure in getting there and securing the gate.
It is very sad that we have to steal our children's innocence with this nonsense but there really is no alternative. After living my mates drama this morning and feeling his anguish in protecting his family I woke up to reality

13 isn’t too young ffs. If he is thought well and can handle a firearm responsibility, 13 is fine.

My old man taught me to shoot a pistol at and .22 at 11 and at 13 our scout troop went to a rifle range to shoot R4’s.

Your kid will be fine.

How will our children be fine after all this? Here I am showing him how to shoot another human being.

Our children really did get the sucky end of the stick.

Covid. Almost no physical contact with friends for a year and a bit. Very limited sport. Limited schooling. Now riots and burning and looting and the very real threat of a civil war, What have they done to deserve this. This is not the world we conceived them to grow up in.

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:39 am I cant remember one part of my life were handling and shooting a rifle was not part of it. I think I got my first windbuks at the age of 5. I accompanied my dad and uncle on hunts as young as 6 and took my first rooibok at the age of 12. I know that many of my friends was the same. It was just part of our up bringing.

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:44 am

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:39 am I cant remember one part of my life were handling and shooting a rifle was not part of it. I think I got my first windbuks at the age of 5. I accompanied my dad and uncle on hunts as young as 6 and took my first rooibok at the age of 12. I know that many of my friends was the same. It was just part of our up bringing.

There's a big difference between learning how to hunt game and learning how to shoot somebody in self defence.

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:53 am I'll argue that if you've done the former enough and the time comes when your life depends on it, the latter will come naturally.

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:53 am

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:44 am

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:39 am I cant remember one part of my life were handling and shooting a rifle was not part of it. I think I got my first windbuks at the age of 5. I accompanied my dad and uncle on hunts as young as 6 and took my first rooibok at the age of 12. I know that many of my friends was the same. It was just part of our up bringing.

There's a big difference between learning how to hunt game and learning how to shoot somebody in self defence.

I'll argue that if you've done the former enough and the time comes when your life depends on it, the latter will come naturally.

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:56 am

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:53 am I'll argue that if you've done the former enough and the time comes when your life depends on it, the latter will come naturally.

You're probably right, but the latter will have consequences for the rest of your life.

I get the need for self-defence, but you're talking about taking someone's life.

sorCrer wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:42 am

Yeeb wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:32 pm Bad things happening in toti guys :(
Lots of people killed at a roadblock they tried to pass through whilst claiming they just wanted food - but the tellies in the cars gave the game away. FiL has barricaded himself in the house, not much else they can do right now. No army around, just a few cops, local security and citizen militia on the ground.

There are no reports of this. Please confirm before adding to chaos.

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:35 am The idea of vigilante groups doing roadblocks concerns me. Especially when it's most likely to be armed by whites and they're stopping blacks. Last thing we need is a race war.

There was a story circulating on Twitter about a shop only allowing whites in to buy essential goods. Their rationale was that there are no whites looting. They're probably right, but, eish.

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:59 am

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:53 am

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:44 am

There's a big difference between learning how to hunt game and learning how to shoot somebody in self defence.

I'll argue that if you've done the former enough and the time comes when your life depends on it, the latter will come naturally.

Armed self defence is 10% knowing how to use a firearm and 90% knowing the correct tactics. Firing positions, fire and movement, utilizing cover etc. Many farmers have lost their lives while being fully armed for this reason. Fortunately most crims are even more clueless. But they are used to working and moving in the dark which gives them a huge advantage.

Yeeb wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:13 am The roadblocks are being manned by people of all races , and private security forces deployed are mostly black as well. It’s not just white areas that are putting roadblocks up and protecting shops, but of course the white areas will have plenty of people with guns and ammo and training.

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:14 am

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:59 am

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:53 am

I'll argue that if you've done the former enough and the time comes when your life depends on it, the latter will come naturally.

Armed self defence is 10% knowing how to use a firearm and 90% knowing the correct tactics. Firing positions, fire and movement, utilizing cover etc. Many farmers have lost their lives while being fully armed for this reason. Fortunately most crims are even more clueless. But they are used to working and moving in the dark which gives them a huge advantage.

We're talking about kids here. You wont be enrolling them to defensive shooting boot camp at the age of 12.

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:25 am

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:14 am

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:59 am
Armed self defence is 10% knowing how to use a firearm and 90% knowing the correct tactics. Firing positions, fire and movement, utilizing cover etc. Many farmers have lost their lives while being fully armed for this reason. Fortunately most crims are even more clueless. But they are used to working and moving in the dark which gives them a huge advantage.

We're talking about kids here. You wont be enrolling them to defensive shooting boot camp at the age of 12.

Of course, but if you going to give a child access to a firearm for self defence then you need to teach them as much as they can absorb.

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:52 am Why would you do that at such a young age? As their father you should be there to protect them at that age, no? Sure, teach them to shoot straight, teach them that shooting something is not a game. But I'm totally against sending your primary school kid off to some sort of military style boot camp or teaching them to be child soldiers. We're not living in fokon Rwanda here.

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:15 am

Yeeb wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:13 am The roadblocks are being manned by people of all races , and private security forces deployed are mostly black as well. It’s not just white areas that are putting roadblocks up and protecting shops, but of course the white areas will have plenty of people with guns and ammo and training.

Fair enough.

Best of luck to your family Yeeb, sounds horrific.

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:52 am

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:25 am

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:14 am
We're talking about kids here. You wont be enrolling them to defensive shooting boot camp at the age of 12.

Of course, but if you going to give a child access to a firearm for self defence then you need to teach them as much as they can absorb.

Why would you do that at such a young age? As their father you should be there to protect them at that age, no? Sure, teach them to shoot straight, teach them that shooting something is not a game. But I'm totally against sending your primary school kid off to some sort of military style boot camp or teaching them to be child soldiers. We're not living in fokon Rwanda here.

Sards telling his little fella that "you're the man in the house when I'm not here" or to "shoot them in da face my boy, in da face, I tells ya" is not on mate.

sorCrer wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:07 am There are no reports of deaths in Toti. I have family down there too.

The entire thing is clearly being orchestrated.

A water treatment plant has been targeted in Cato Ridge.

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:53 am

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:52 am Why would you do that at such a young age? As their father you should be there to protect them at that age, no? Sure, teach them to shoot straight, teach them that shooting something is not a game. But I'm totally against sending your primary school kid off to some sort of military style boot camp or teaching them to be child soldiers. We're not living in fokon Rwanda here.

Oh come on AJ. Have you been to Rwanda? It's a far more attractive place to live than SA right now, I can assure you.

sorCrer wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:07 am There are no reports of deaths in Toti. I have family down there too.

The entire thing is clearly being orchestrated.

A water treatment plant has been targeted in Cato Ridge.

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:59 am

average joe wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:52 am

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:25 am
Of course, but if you going to give a child access to a firearm for self defence then you need to teach them as much as they can absorb.

Why would you do that at such a young age? As their father you should be there to protect them at that age, no? Sure, teach them to shoot straight, teach them that shooting something is not a game. But I'm totally against sending your primary school kid off to some sort of military style boot camp or teaching them to be child soldiers. We're not living in fokon Rwanda here.

Sards telling his little fella that "you're the man in the house when I'm not here" or to "shoot them in da face my boy, in da face, I tells ya" is not on mate.

Well you wouldn't. I don't think kids should be put in that position at all. I was simply responding to suggestions here that because children are taught to shoot and hunt at an early age that doesn't really equip them for self defence with firearms.

Insane_Homer wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:30 am