Another mass shooting in the US

[notfatcat]

Death yes, death of a human being? Not in my mind.

At what point in your wife's pregnancy did you view your unborn child as non-human?

[Hugo]

FT0XBAlVUAAeQqt.jpeg

Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

I just looked this up and even Ronald Reagan supported the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and he wrote to the house of reps endorsing the legislation in 1994!

This is to Marylanders point a few pages back that the nutters have well and truly taken over that party.

[Tichtheid]

FT0XBAlVUAAeQqt.jpeg

Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

I just looked this up and even Ronald Reagan supported the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and he wrote to the house of reps endorsing the legislation in 1994!

This is to Marylanders point a few pages back that the nutters have well and truly taken over that party.

The American Taliban

[Raggs]

Death yes, death of a human being? Not in my mind.

At what point in your wife's pregnancy did you view your unborn child as non-human?

At least the first 12 weeks. On top of that the potential for abortion in the event of difficulties was on the table. We wanted a baby human, but that doesn't mean it was a human for the entire time from conception.

[notfatcat]

Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

[Tichtheid]

Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

It’s not each to their own, up to the point of viability a pregnancy goes from a single cell at conception to being able to survive outside the womb, an ever-increasing collection of cells

The collection of cells has the potential to become a human, that is not the same as being human.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

Each to their own is rather the point, it's about having the freedom of choice whatever the background reasons.

[notfatcat]

Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

Each to their own is rather the point, it's about having the freedom of choice whatever the background reasons.

Each to their own as in he can think what he likes. He can think we should castrate all boys who grow up on a council estate... doesn't mean there's any justification for doing so.

[Fonz]

As for semi-automatic hand guns, the desire to have one should disqualify the person from having one, no sane person outside of the military needs these.

Ok, hold on here. I don't own a gun, but that is absolutely not true. There are plenty of places in the US where carrying a concealed firearm for personal protection is an entirely rational choice.

I used to deliver pizza in the hood about a decade ago. Around that time, two separate pizza guys delivering right outside our area (just a few miles away) were both murdered in separate incidents, for a couple bucks and presumably a few pies. A couple of the other drivers started carrying after that, which I thought was completely understandable, especially for white guys (who are invariably seen as easy marks).

Obviously there are many more contexts where it makes sense, but this is just an example.

[robmatic]

Death yes, death of a human being? Not in my mind.

At what point in your wife's pregnancy did you view your unborn child as non-human?

At least the first 12 weeks. On top of that the potential for abortion in the event of difficulties was on the table. We wanted a baby human, but that doesn't mean it was a human for the entire time from conception.

There's good reason why you don't even tell anybody you're pregnant until 3 months has passed.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

Each to their own is rather the point, it's about having the freedom of choice whatever the background reasons.

Each to their own as in he can think what he likes. He can think we should castrate all boys who grow up on a council estate... doesn't mean there's any justification for doing so.

As with the shooting performing genital mutilation on others is doing things to other people without their consent. Abortion is being done, hopefully and common sense says mostly with the woman's consent.

There might be something in castrating anyone who wants and gets a gun, at least the men, as a drop in testosterone might be useful

[Tichtheid]

As for semi-automatic hand guns, the desire to have one should disqualify the person from having one, no sane person outside of the military needs these.

Ok, hold on here. I don't own a gun, but that is absolutely not true. There are plenty of places in the US where carrying a concealed firearm for personal protection is an entirely rational choice.

I used to deliver pizza in the hood about a decade ago. Around that time, two separate pizza guys delivering right outside our area (just a few miles away) were both murdered in separate incidents, for a couple bucks and presumably a few pies. A couple of the other drivers started carrying after that, which I thought was completely understandable, especially for white guys (who are invariably seen as easy marks).

Obviously there are many more contexts where it makes sense, but this is just an example.

You edited out assault rifles from my post, can I assume you don’t think it’s a rational choice for civilians to own military style weapons?

The US has become awash with guns, but looking at data from other comparable countries where it’s really difficult/impossible to get these weapons, we don’t see anything like the gun violence the US sees, and it does so on a daily basis.

If I remember correctly the data doesn’t show that owning a gun prevents violence

[Zapp Bannigan]

Ok, enough is enough, I'm stepping in here to say keep the abortion feelings, be they pro or anti, be kept away from this thread. This thread is about the dismay and disgust of mass shootings occuring in the USA. I'll start another thread for the discussion about abortion. Anyone posting in here again about abortion will be given a timeout.

Zapp.

[Hugo]

Indeed, I could be misremembering but I think there is data that says that if you own a gun you are actually more likely to die by gunfire than if you did not.

I think the stats are skewed because of suicides but its an interesting stat nonetheless.

[sockwithaticket]

Indeed, I could be misremembering but I think there is data that says that if you own a gun you are actually more likely to die by gunfire than if you did not.

I think the stats are skewed because of suicides but its an interesting stat nonetheless.

I've definitely seen similar. Even allowing for the skew of taking your own life with one, it's clearly not an obvious case of have a gun and no one will be able to fuck with you.

[Kiwias]

Ok, enough is enough, I'm stepping in here to say keep the abortion feelings, be they pro or anti, be kept away from this thread. This thread is about the dismay and disgust of mass shootings occuring in the USA. I'll start another thread for the discussion about abortion. Anyone posting in here again about abortion will be given a timeout.

Zapp.

[FalseBayFC]

FT0XBAlVUAAeQqt.jpeg

Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

I just looked this up and even Ronald Reagan supported the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and he wrote to the house of reps endorsing the legislation in 1994!

This is to Marylanders point a few pages back that the nutters have well and truly taken over that party.

Yeah it fucking madness! In South Africa I can buy and own a semi-auto AR-15 with suppressor and no limits to size of magazine. And I can concealed carry a sidearm. Their are significant training and bureaucratic hoops to jump through though. And it takes a fair bit of time. The license category is for dedicated sports shooter and hunters. Gun controls are very strict. Despite our high crime rate I don't think we've ever had a spree shooting or mass shooting incident.

[Fonz]

As for semi-automatic hand guns, the desire to have one should disqualify the person from having one, no sane person outside of the military needs these.

Ok, hold on here. I don't own a gun, but that is absolutely not true. There are plenty of places in the US where carrying a concealed firearm for personal protection is an entirely rational choice.

I used to deliver pizza in the hood about a decade ago. Around that time, two separate pizza guys delivering right outside our area (just a few miles away) were both murdered in separate incidents, for a couple bucks and presumably a few pies. A couple of the other drivers started carrying after that, which I thought was completely understandable, especially for white guys (who are invariably seen as easy marks).

Obviously there are many more contexts where it makes sense, but this is just an example.

You edited out assault rifles from my post, can I assume you don’t think it’s a rational choice for civilians to own military style weapons?

The US has become awash with guns, but looking at data from other comparable countries where it’s really difficult/impossible to get these weapons, we don’t see anything like the gun violence the US sees, and it does so on a daily basis.

If I remember correctly the data doesn’t show that owning a gun prevents violence

Of course, that's why I took it out, it's not even worth discussing.

[Tichtheid]

[Uncle fester]

Can we simplify this thread a little, can anybody who thinks automatic assault rifles should be freely available for sale put up their hands please?

[Uncle fester]

[sockwithaticket]

It has always seemed to me that 2A fetishists ignore:
- the part about a well-regulated militia and it's role in protecting the state, written in the context of having no standing army
- that they have the national guard which fulfil those criteria and also now have a standing army.
- that the common weaponry of the day (muskets) could, at best, fire one one round every 15 seconds and was wildly inaccurate.
- writings from the founding fathers that specifically advocate for constant revision of the constitution

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It has always seemed to me that 2A fetishists ignore:
- the part about a well-regulated militia and it's role in protecting the state, written in the context of having no standing army
- that they have the national guard which fulfil those criteria and also now have a standing army.
- that the common weaponry of the day (muskets) could, at best, fire one one round every 15 seconds and was wildly inaccurate.
- writings from the founding fathers that specifically advocate for constant revision of the constitution

And they were seeking language that would separate them from certain British norms. They'd have known going back over the years only the upper classes in Britain were allowed to carry a sword, and that around 100 years before the US constitution was written the British parliament passed an act that Protestants were allowed arms for their defence. So the US were in part merely showing they were free of British dictates and all were equal (apart from women, blacks, gays....)

[fishfoodie]

I'd post the Irish process, but I'm not sure the servers would have the storage.

[Kawazaki]

I'd post the Irish process, but I'm not sure the servers would have the storage.

'Wear a balaclava' won't take up too much bandwidth.

[Insane_Homer]

Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

Proportion has fuck all to do with anything and it's a hilariously stupid false equivalency, terrorism & voter fraud dispels that quite easily. like when 1 *failed* shoe bomber changed the way we fly forever.
214 mass shooting in the USA in *check notes* 148 days (aka this year so far) - 27 of those at schools. For proportion (sic!), 1 Mass shooting in the EU with 1 fatality.

1 young man killed 22 fucking people, that's the proportional you dumbass. Without legal access to an AR15 he'd have been stopped by the chickenshit police before entering the school and not left to go on a rampage for an hour because they were *check notes* scared to take him on because he had *check notes* an AR15 assault rifle with tons of ammo.

[Torquemada 1420]

Can we simplify this thread a little, can anybody who thinks automatic assault rifles should be freely available for sale put up their hands please?

I'm sure there will be someone.

[geordie_6]

Can we simplify this thread a little, can anybody who thinks automatic assault rifles should be freely available for sale put up their hands please?

I'm sure there will be someone.

They are probably dumb enough to just put their hand up rather than actually post something.

[Rinkals]

Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

Proportion has fuck all to do with anything and it's a hilariously stupid false equivalency, terrorism & voter fraud dispels that quite easily. like when 1 *failed* shoe bomber changed the way we fly forever.
214 mass shooting in the USA in *check notes* 148 days (aka this year so far) - 27 of those at schools. For proportion (sic!), 1 Mass shooting in the EU with 1 fatality.

1 young man killed 22 fucking people, that's the proportional you dumbass. Without legal access to an AR15 he'd have been stopped by the chickenshit police before entering the school and not left to go on a rampage for an hour because they were *check notes* scared to take him on because he had *check notes* an AR15 assault rifle with tons of ammo.

Seriously, this is one subject where I'm inclined to feel that being male disqualifies any opinion one might have on abortion from being considered.

I really don't think that, as men, that we can fully grasp the enormity of having to make a decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Obviously, Fatcat is the exception.

[Zapp Bannigan]

Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

Proportion has fuck all to do with anything and it's a hilariously stupid false equivalency, terrorism & voter fraud dispels that quite easily. like when 1 *failed* shoe bomber changed the way we fly forever.
214 mass shooting in the USA in *check notes* 148 days (aka this year so far) - 27 of those at schools. For proportion (sic!), 1 Mass shooting in the EU with 1 fatality.

1 young man killed 22 fucking people, that's the proportional you dumbass. Without legal access to an AR15 he'd have been stopped by the chickenshit police before entering the school and not left to go on a rampage for an hour because they were *check notes* scared to take him on because he had *check notes* an AR15 assault rifle with tons of ammo.

Seriously, this is one subject where I'm inclined to feel that being male disqualifies any opinion one might have on abortion from being considered.

I really don't think that, as men, that we can fully grasp the enormity of having to make a decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Obviously, Fatcat is the exception.

Please read my post on the previous page.
You might not have seen it, so I'm letting this one slide.

[Jock42]

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[MungoMan]

Everyone capable of carrying a semi-automatic or automatic long-arm should be offered one free of charge. If everyone is similarly armed, it's the same as nobody being armed.

Aside from the blood, screaming, bullet-holes and noise, of course.

[Torquemada 1420]

Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

Proportion has fuck all to do with anything and it's a hilariously stupid false equivalency, terrorism & voter fraud dispels that quite easily. like when 1 *failed* shoe bomber changed the way we fly forever.
214 mass shooting in the USA in *check notes* 148 days (aka this year so far) - 27 of those at schools. For proportion (sic!), 1 Mass shooting in the EU with 1 fatality.

1 young man killed 22 fucking people, that's the proportional you dumbass. Without legal access to an AR15 he'd have been stopped by the chickenshit police before entering the school and not left to go on a rampage for an hour because they were *check notes* scared to take him on because he had *check notes* an AR15 assault rifle with tons of ammo.

Seriously, this is one subject where I'm inclined to feel that being male disqualifies any opinion one might have on abortion from being considered.

I really don't think that, as men, that we can fully grasp the enormity of having to make a decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Obviously, Fatcat is the exception.

I'm with you. I really don't think as men we need to be dictating to women what to do with their bodies.

[Rinkals]

Proportion has fuck all to do with anything and it's a hilariously stupid false equivalency, terrorism & voter fraud dispels that quite easily. like when 1 *failed* shoe bomber changed the way we fly forever.
214 mass shooting in the USA in *check notes* 148 days (aka this year so far) - 27 of those at schools. For proportion (sic!), 1 Mass shooting in the EU with 1 fatality.

1 young man killed 22 fucking people, that's the proportional you dumbass. Without legal access to an AR15 he'd have been stopped by the chickenshit police before entering the school and not left to go on a rampage for an hour because they were *check notes* scared to take him on because he had *check notes* an AR15 assault rifle with tons of ammo.

Seriously, this is one subject where I'm inclined to feel that being male disqualifies any opinion one might have on abortion from being considered.

I really don't think that, as men, that we can fully grasp the enormity of having to make a decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Obviously, Fatcat is the exception.

Please read my post on the previous page.
You might not have seen it, so I'm letting this one slide.

Presumably your objection is regarding my dig at Fatcat rather than the belief that men are well within their rights to demand that abortion be made illegal?

[Raggs]

Seriously, this is one subject where I'm inclined to feel that being male disqualifies any opinion one might have on abortion from being considered.

I really don't think that, as men, that we can fully grasp the enormity of having to make a decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Obviously, Fatcat is the exception.

Please read my post on the previous page.
You might not have seen it, so I'm letting this one slide.

Presumably your objection is regarding my dig at Fatcat rather than the belief that men are well within their rights to demand that abortion be made illegal?

He's referring to no more abortion talk on this thread. Hence the dedicated abortion thread.

[Rinkals]

Oh, okay, no I didn't see that.

Not that I agree with it, though; I suspect that overweening patriarchy is probably the underlying cause of this mess.

[Slick]

Oh, okay, no I didn't see that.

Not that I agree with it, though; I suspect that overweening patriarchy is probably the underlying cause of this mess.

Down with Zapps patriarchy

[Tilly Orifice]

It's not the patriarchy that's objectionable, it's the overweening. Nobody likes overweening.

[petej]

Thought this from medcram was interesting. Social media really is poison.

[SaintK]

It's not the patriarchy that's objectionable, it's the overweening. Nobody likes overweening.

I wouldn't know. I've never knowingly overweened!