NPR

Raggs wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:22 pm Death yes, death of a human being? Not in my mind.

TB63 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 1:04 pm FT0XBAlVUAAeQqt.jpeg

Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

Hugo wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:07 pm

TB63 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 1:04 pm FT0XBAlVUAAeQqt.jpeg

Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

I just looked this up and even Ronald Reagan supported the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and he wrote to the house of reps endorsing the legislation in 1994!

This is to Marylanders point a few pages back that the nutters have well and truly taken over that party.

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:45 pm

Raggs wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:22 pm Death yes, death of a human being? Not in my mind.

At what point in your wife's pregnancy did you view your unborn child as non-human?

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:30 pm Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:30 pm Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:40 pm

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:30 pm Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

Each to their own is rather the point, it's about having the freedom of choice whatever the background reasons.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 1:27 pm As for semi-automatic hand guns, the desire to have one should disqualify the person from having one, no sane person outside of the military needs these.

Raggs wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:17 pm

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:45 pm

Raggs wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:22 pm Death yes, death of a human being? Not in my mind.

At what point in your wife's pregnancy did you view your unborn child as non-human?

At least the first 12 weeks. On top of that the potential for abortion in the event of difficulties was on the table. We wanted a baby human, but that doesn't mean it was a human for the entire time from conception.

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 5:04 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:40 pm

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:30 pm Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

Each to their own is rather the point, it's about having the freedom of choice whatever the background reasons.

Each to their own as in he can think what he likes. He can think we should castrate all boys who grow up on a council estate... doesn't mean there's any justification for doing so.

Fonz wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:10 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 1:27 pm As for semi-automatic hand guns, the desire to have one should disqualify the person from having one, no sane person outside of the military needs these.

Ok, hold on here. I don't own a gun, but that is absolutely not true. There are plenty of places in the US where carrying a concealed firearm for personal protection is an entirely rational choice.

I used to deliver pizza in the hood about a decade ago. Around that time, two separate pizza guys delivering right outside our area (just a few miles away) were both murdered in separate incidents, for a couple bucks and presumably a few pies. A couple of the other drivers started carrying after that, which I thought was completely understandable, especially for white guys (who are invariably seen as easy marks).

Obviously there are many more contexts where it makes sense, but this is just an example.

Hugo wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:11 pm Indeed, I could be misremembering but I think there is data that says that if you own a gun you are actually more likely to die by gunfire than if you did not.

I think the stats are skewed because of suicides but its an interesting stat nonetheless.

Zapp Bannigan wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:10 pm Ok, enough is enough, I'm stepping in here to say keep the abortion feelings, be they pro or anti, be kept away from this thread. This thread is about the dismay and disgust of mass shootings occuring in the USA. I'll start another thread for the discussion about abortion. Anyone posting in here again about abortion will be given a timeout.

Zapp.

Hugo wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:07 pm

TB63 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 1:04 pm FT0XBAlVUAAeQqt.jpeg

Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

I just looked this up and even Ronald Reagan supported the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and he wrote to the house of reps endorsing the legislation in 1994!

This is to Marylanders point a few pages back that the nutters have well and truly taken over that party.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:07 pm

Fonz wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:10 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 1:27 pm As for semi-automatic hand guns, the desire to have one should disqualify the person from having one, no sane person outside of the military needs these.

Ok, hold on here. I don't own a gun, but that is absolutely not true. There are plenty of places in the US where carrying a concealed firearm for personal protection is an entirely rational choice.

I used to deliver pizza in the hood about a decade ago. Around that time, two separate pizza guys delivering right outside our area (just a few miles away) were both murdered in separate incidents, for a couple bucks and presumably a few pies. A couple of the other drivers started carrying after that, which I thought was completely understandable, especially for white guys (who are invariably seen as easy marks).

Obviously there are many more contexts where it makes sense, but this is just an example.

You edited out assault rifles from my post, can I assume you don’t think it’s a rational choice for civilians to own military style weapons?

The US has become awash with guns, but looking at data from other comparable countries where it’s really difficult/impossible to get these weapons, we don’t see anything like the gun violence the US sees, and it does so on a daily basis.

If I remember correctly the data doesn’t show that owning a gun prevents violence

Tichtheid wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:17 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 11:02 am

Tichtheid wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:17 am

It has always seemed to me that 2A fetishists ignore:
- the part about a well-regulated militia and it's role in protecting the state, written in the context of having no standing army
- that they have the national guard which fulfil those criteria and also now have a standing army.
- that the common weaponry of the day (muskets) could, at best, fire one one round every 15 seconds and was wildly inaccurate.
- writings from the founding fathers that specifically advocate for constant revision of the constitution

Uncle fester wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:31 am

fishfoodie wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:00 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:31 am

I'd post the Irish process, but I'm not sure the servers would have the storage.

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 10:38 am Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

Uncle fester wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:20 am Can we simplify this thread a little, can anybody who thinks automatic assault rifles should be freely available for sale put up their hands please?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 6:31 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:20 am Can we simplify this thread a little, can anybody who thinks automatic assault rifles should be freely available for sale put up their hands please?

I'm sure there will be someone.

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:36 pm

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 10:38 am Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

Proportion has fuck all to do with anything and it's a hilariously stupid false equivalency, terrorism & voter fraud dispels that quite easily. like when 1 *failed* shoe bomber changed the way we fly forever.
214 mass shooting in the USA in *check notes* 148 days (aka this year so far) - 27 of those at schools. For proportion (sic!), 1 Mass shooting in the EU with 1 fatality.

1 young man killed 22 fucking people, that's the proportional you dumbass. Without legal access to an AR15 he'd have been stopped by the chickenshit police before entering the school and not left to go on a rampage for an hour because they were *check notes* scared to take him on because he had *check notes* an AR15 assault rifle with tons of ammo.

Rinkals wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:51 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:36 pm

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 10:38 am Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

Proportion has fuck all to do with anything and it's a hilariously stupid false equivalency, terrorism & voter fraud dispels that quite easily. like when 1 *failed* shoe bomber changed the way we fly forever.
214 mass shooting in the USA in *check notes* 148 days (aka this year so far) - 27 of those at schools. For proportion (sic!), 1 Mass shooting in the EU with 1 fatality.

1 young man killed 22 fucking people, that's the proportional you dumbass. Without legal access to an AR15 he'd have been stopped by the chickenshit police before entering the school and not left to go on a rampage for an hour because they were *check notes* scared to take him on because he had *check notes* an AR15 assault rifle with tons of ammo.

Seriously, this is one subject where I'm inclined to feel that being male disqualifies any opinion one might have on abortion from being considered.

I really don't think that, as men, that we can fully grasp the enormity of having to make a decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Obviously, Fatcat is the exception.

Rinkals wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:51 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:36 pm

notfatcat wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 10:38 am Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

Proportion has fuck all to do with anything and it's a hilariously stupid false equivalency, terrorism & voter fraud dispels that quite easily. like when 1 *failed* shoe bomber changed the way we fly forever.
214 mass shooting in the USA in *check notes* 148 days (aka this year so far) - 27 of those at schools. For proportion (sic!), 1 Mass shooting in the EU with 1 fatality.

1 young man killed 22 fucking people, that's the proportional you dumbass. Without legal access to an AR15 he'd have been stopped by the chickenshit police before entering the school and not left to go on a rampage for an hour because they were *check notes* scared to take him on because he had *check notes* an AR15 assault rifle with tons of ammo.

Seriously, this is one subject where I'm inclined to feel that being male disqualifies any opinion one might have on abortion from being considered.

I really don't think that, as men, that we can fully grasp the enormity of having to make a decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Obviously, Fatcat is the exception.

Zapp Bannigan wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:14 pm

Rinkals wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:51 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:36 pm

Proportion has fuck all to do with anything and it's a hilariously stupid false equivalency, terrorism & voter fraud dispels that quite easily. like when 1 *failed* shoe bomber changed the way we fly forever.
214 mass shooting in the USA in *check notes* 148 days (aka this year so far) - 27 of those at schools. For proportion (sic!), 1 Mass shooting in the EU with 1 fatality.

1 young man killed 22 fucking people, that's the proportional you dumbass. Without legal access to an AR15 he'd have been stopped by the chickenshit police before entering the school and not left to go on a rampage for an hour because they were *check notes* scared to take him on because he had *check notes* an AR15 assault rifle with tons of ammo.

Seriously, this is one subject where I'm inclined to feel that being male disqualifies any opinion one might have on abortion from being considered.

I really don't think that, as men, that we can fully grasp the enormity of having to make a decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Obviously, Fatcat is the exception.

Please read my post on the previous page.
You might not have seen it, so I'm letting this one slide.

Rinkals wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 6:36 pm

Zapp Bannigan wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:14 pm

Rinkals wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:51 pm

Seriously, this is one subject where I'm inclined to feel that being male disqualifies any opinion one might have on abortion from being considered.

I really don't think that, as men, that we can fully grasp the enormity of having to make a decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Obviously, Fatcat is the exception.

Please read my post on the previous page.
You might not have seen it, so I'm letting this one slide.

Presumably your objection is regarding my dig at Fatcat rather than the belief that men are well within their rights to demand that abortion be made illegal?

Rinkals wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 5:36 am Oh, okay, no I didn't see that.

Not that I agree with it, though; I suspect that overweening patriarchy is probably the underlying cause of this mess.

Tilly Orifice wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:57 am It's not the patriarchy that's objectionable, it's the overweening. Nobody likes overweening.